248 | Working Writers Ask Us Questions: An Industry Mailbag

In this special edition of our mailbag series, we’re flipping the script. Instead of questions from newcomers, today we hear from working, professional screenwriters—people already inside the industry, navigating the real-world challenges of a creative career. From handling difficult notes to sustaining momentum between jobs, Meg and Lorien dig into what it means to grow and survive as a writer at the professional level.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Lorien McKenna: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Screenwriting Life. I'm Lorien McKenna.

Meg LeFauve: And I'm Meg LeFauve. And today we are going to be answering questions that have been submitted by professional writers. Yes. Even pros have questions. Well, I mean, I have questions every day. Like, what is writing? What is writing?

Lorien McKenna: What is words? What are words? Before we get into that, we're gonna talk about our weeks or what we like to call Adventures in Screenwriting. And I'll go first. So, two things happened this week that I find interesting. I mean, I find them fascinating 'cause they're about me. Right? I have been working on a pitch and I have gone down many iterations of it, and I did the thing that I always do, and I wish I could catch this earlier, is that I went all the way back to the original idea I had before I second guessed myself into. I don't even know what happened to it. It started out as this very simple premise that made sense. It was good. I loved it. And then I just started overcomplicating it.

Instead of digging into what it was, I was trying to find all the reasons it didn't work and trying to fix those up. And it became like this Franken thing. And I sort of lost it got really hard and I wasn't having fun anymore. And then I was like, wait a minute, what was I working on four weeks ago? And I went back to my notes because I obsessively save every document that I work on.

I was like, oh, right, this was good. What am I doing? And I texted Meg and I was like, so guess what? I did? Again, so that was fun. It's just, I wish I could catch that. I would like, okay. Not, I wish, I'm going to work on trusting my first instinct because it is usually the right one when it comes to my creative process.

And I don't know what it is about me that makes me second guess it, but it's not serving me as a creative and it makes me waste a lot of time instead of, oh, I have four good ideas. Flesh that out. Flesh the next one, flesh the next one. Allow myself some deviation, but constantly checking back to what the original impulse was, because that always seems to be the thing that I go back to that ends up working.

So I gotta think about that. On the other hand, it could be, well, you're not investigating it enough. Right? So, I don't know. It's very confusing. But it was, I mean, 

Meg LeFauve: Everybody's brains are different and everybody, every project's different. Yeah. Sometimes it could be a project that you have to dig into like that 'cause you are avoiding something unconsciously and sometimes you're just frankensteining it out of fear.

But I don't know. There's no way to know other than do it, which sucks. But that's...

Lorien McKenna: I think what it is I love to share my ideas really early and then I listen to people's feedback or responses and I think they're right. Instead of maybe not showing things until I have more things put together, talking things through with somebody who will ask me questions rather than have opinions.

Meg LeFauve: That's very good advice. 

Lorien McKenna: Yes. Which is advice I give people all the time. So I'm just gonna have to hold that mirror up. Meg, how was your week? 

Meg LeFauve: My week, I'm doing too many things at once. It's, you know, my husband's out of town, so then when that happens, you're single parenting. And I'm happy for him to be taking this time, but I'm a little bit overwhelmed.

And then create, so my brain is a little frazzled. So she'd be fun today. Should be fun to see what happens with Meg's brain today. But also I've been reading a lot of other people's scripts and helping them and I'm noticing that and you know, this is not scientific, this is just something I'm noticing that pro writers often are very, and I think this is because they've been in so many rooms and done this so much, they get very plot oriented, you know, in terms of, well, this, and then, so a lot of your questions become about lava.

Like, why do you care about this and why is this personal to you? Right? Because, you know, studios aren't asking that, you know, buyers aren't asking that, but that is part of the process. Whereas emerging writers, like on our workshop site. All lava, they're all emotion. They can tell us such amazing reasons that they're writing it and the character backstory, you know, they can just do such deep dives, but when we ask them about plot, their brains just keep describing character.

And then you're like, no, I know, but plot, like, what's happening in this show or in what's on the screen? Well, you know, she just really needs to find herself. And you're like, I know, I get that. So it's just so interesting that I think, you know, we all begin, or a lot of us begin, so connected to our emotions and to what's important to us and what's inspiring us and why we're writing this.

And then as you go through the chopper, which they're like, what is the plot? What is the concept? What am I putting on the poster? How am I selling this? What kind of shoes are these that we're selling so we can see if it fits in with what we need? Not that they, and both sides. You need both, right?

Like you're an emerging rarity. You still have to have plot. Like, I still need to know what's happening and studio execs still want it to be emotional. Don't get me wrong. They do. They still, that's why they love it. That's why they're gonna champion it. But it's really not their questions necessarily, right?

They, their questions are very top down because by the way, they're very busy and they're just like, I don't get her arc. I don't understand why this doesn't seem logical in the plot. And like they're just going up up and now go figure it out. So it's just interesting to me to see the two and how I'm trying so hard to balance both of those in my own work.

Right now. I can get really, I kind of hide and plot. Everybody hides different places. And I'm such the big lava lady, but the truth is I do hide in plot because it's just easier to think about, well how did she get out the window? Let's just talk about that.

Lorien McKenna: It's so funny, Meg. I hide in lava and then when I talk to writers, I'm always all about plot.

Like I will, I'll just hide in like all the gory, juicy, backy stuff, you know? And then, yeah, and then I'm always like, but what's the goal? What did they want? What's the midpoint? What's the bottom of act two? How are they getting there? What's they learning? Yeah, that's so funny.

Meg LeFauve: Cause all this, I, and I really like reading friend scripts or other people's scripts and I really love round tables, which you can do around Hollywood where you're hearing other writers and how they think.

It reminds me of the wonderful times at Pixar where you're getting these brains and you're hearing the questions they're asking, which is the best? Like, I just need the questions, you know? And one writer in the round table said to a, it was a novelist and it was one of his first scripts, so he was asking, you know, kind of questions about the craft of screenwriting.

And he said character is attitude in action. And I was like, oh my God. Put that as a poster over my desk. And suddenly I was like, wait a minute. I don't think my main character has any attitude. Oh my God. Wait a minute. Like everybody else in my script has so much attitude and she has no attitude and some, you know, in action.

How is her attitude going into action? Because I've gotten so kind of plotty, but the plot has to come from your character. Right? So it's just ironic that I get kind of, I hide and plot, but now I gotta go back. 

Lorien McKenna: When you say attitude, do you mean like point of view that's driving behavior? Like what does attitude mean? Yeah, like their opinion, their attitude. 

Meg LeFauve: So David Hemingson is the one who said it. And if you think about The Holdovers and you think about attitude and action. That's an easier way for you to understand what I mean, because the, all those characters have attitude and they're behaving and acting on that attitude.

So, you know, it would be great, we could look up attitude in the dictionary and it would really help us, but it just, it's just something to ponder and that, that's why I love listening to other writers and how they approach writing. But I always bring it back to my own work and panic. So there you go.

Lorien McKenna: I, I would love to have a conversation about this briefly because I feel like at some point the craft sometimes gets in my way. 'cause like what I was talking about earlier, like, well, what's not working, right? So I'm trying to fix something before it's even worked, right? That the sort of applying the, okay, do I have a clear, you know, what is the engine of my show?

What is the episode? What is that? I'm asking these questions that I don't know if I'm ready to be asking yet, or like I'm asking 'em the wrong order. 'cause craft will sometimes. Like the rules will make me feel inadequate, and then I have to second guess. Right? Like, I don't know what the 16 episodes of the series are yet, so clearly there's something fundamentally broken.

Like I'm jumping too far ahead and asking bigger craft questions, which can distract me from, I don't know, do I? Making, I... 

Meg LeFauve: No, I think that, I think it's like a seesaw, right? Like yeah. Sometimes I'm so into the characters and then the relationships and the love story and how much she hates her dad and blah, whatever.

And then you're like, oh my God, there's nothing happening. And Joe, I, it's good to work with a partner 'cause Joe will be like, these are all in rooms. Like there's what are we shooting? Like, so it is good to have a partner to go back and forth to me. I just taught her back and forth between the two.

Lorien McKenna: Yeah.

Meg LeFauve: But I do try to use the drive and light is the characters. And what I love about them. Again, because the plot's starting to overwhelm, she's starting to retreat a little bit and I have to kind of, think about that again, for myself, I'm, I don't know that my partner feels the same way, but I am feeling like, oh, I don't, she's doing a lot of watching.

Yeah, she's doing a lot of observing. So it, it's, and when you read a script where the character arrives in attitude, you really can feel it, you know? Yes. And if you have a strong attitude in the character, it will drive the rest of that craft questions that you're asking. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Lorien McKenna: Yeah.

Meg LeFauve: TV's a little different. 'cause if you don't have an engine, you don't have an engine like it. 

Lorien McKenna: Right. I, but I think what happened was, is I was, so, I got, I started to find this character and I couldn't figure out what I loved about her anymore. Like, I loved the idea of her and how she behaved and what she did, but it was so, there wasn't an engine behind it.

It was just very, I was watching her, I wasn't with her or, you know, couldn't imagine myself being her. She was so cold and shut down. And to me, I it was a, it was like, oh wait, why? What happened here? Why did I let her shut down like that? And I don't know, it was a weird, it was a weird experience for me this last time.

Meg LeFauve: Well, but I do think that's kind of what's happening to me, and that the character she's getting remote. 

Which probably means she's mad at me about something. Like she doesn't like something I've done, or this isn't quite right, or I'm making her too much of a victim or too passive, or, I don't know exactly.

But I'm just gonna keep going forward, honestly, a 'cause I have a deadline. And because I don't I know later she's gonna activate in very big ways. So I just need to see her in action. And then maybe I'll go forward and again, I haven't been talking to my writing partner, so maybe together we can suss it out.

But yeah, I don't know. This is writing. Welcome back and forth.

Lorien McKenna: And before we get into talking about the questions that the writers have sent in, I just wanna. Remind us that the reason we even started this podcast is because Meg, you and I were working on a project together and trying to sort out what something meant.

Some note or some thing that we were trying to interpret it and we're like, well, we're like actual professional writers being paid to write this, and we don't know what the hell this thing means in the context of our project, or like a bigger context or like, like the new Hollywood term that we heard or something that we were trying to sort out as it related to our project.

And we thought, if we don't know what's going on. No one else with, no, like how do any of us figure out what's really going on or what these codes are? And so that's sort of what the beginning of it was.

Meg LeFauve: I bet we wanted to drink and be on.

Lorien McKenna: Well, and then when we talked, then we talked to Jeff and he was like, do a podcast.

And we're like, yeah, let's get drunk and ask answer questions. And then that very quickly became like, that's one way to burn your career down. So we were like, well, we're not gonna do that. But I mean, it was from that, I remember I was sitting on the floor of the office and I was, you know, just trying to understand how something worked.

Yeah. And here we are still four years later trying to figure out... 

Meg LeFauve: Exactly and we're gonna quote unquote answer questions from co-writers. But the truth is, we might be like, I don't know, I have not looked at the questions, so this is true, like off the top of my head. 'cause honestly I haven't had time. But and it's more fun to not know.

So Jeff, you are gonna ask the questions? Yes. 

Jeff Graham: Great. And I just wanna say, I thought both of your weeks this week were very relatable, so thank you for sharing. Such an important part of the show and such a great part of the show.

Okay. So the first question we have here is the business is a rollercoaster, longevity is the goal, but with things so rocky, I'd love to know if you have a take on seeing people take a new career path but still stay in the game, how often do you see someone pivot to something more secure who then still has the drive to churn out content and try to stay in the mix?

Lorien McKenna: I think this is a great question, and I think it's also really scary to talk about because if a writer who's a professional writer and that's their professional identity has to go do something else to support themselves while they're also still trying to write, I don't know that a lot of people are talking about it because I mean, I've talked about this on the show, like the teaching I do, the other things I do feels like I.

Am I allowed to even admit that? Is that admitting failure as a professional writer that I'm not working as much as I want to? Is it an ego thing? So I don't have a sense of people doing this, 'cause I don't think people talk about it. 

Meg LeFauve: No, I don't think people talk about it. I mean, there's different versions, right?

There's people who have been showrunners who now have to take jobs, show running of maybe a show that's not their own or a job that they don't love when they have to, you know? So there's that kind of shift and then there's the bigger shift of I have to do something with writing. But that, that, that's what I chose to do.

I chose to when I was in this position, I chose to become a consultant and I was consulting for Screen Australia and Screen New South Wales. And, you know, I, there I. Now, I don't even know if they're still funding this, but at the time the government was funding their film, so they had, they needed Hollywood people to be reading.

And it's not just coverage, like you're literally assessing and working with the team and working with that writer. And so I chose to do that to and then I started taking private consultations as a way to survive, honestly. At the time I was lucky in that I was also in a marriage, so there were two of us who could do it.

But in terms of both out there working and hustling, but that's what I chose to do. 'cause it's still writing, it's still me talking about story. It's still me using all of those tools and keeping sharp. And if it may be even getting sharper because you're having to do that. Then there's the third version, which is you're really just taking something completely outside.

You're not teaching, you're not consulting, you're really going into something that is not writing at all. And I understand the fear of that because a, will you have time to write it? That would be my biggest question. I have no judgment about that. I think it's a completely, absolutely fine thing to do.

But my only question would be, is it a job that you'll still have time to write or are you gonna be completely wiped out and not be able to write? That would worry me because then you're not writing and you're not being your writerly dream yourself. So if it's a version of a job that you still can write. Then of course I think you should do it.

Lorien McKenna: That's just, take care of yourself. Yeah.

Meg LeFauve: Yeah. You gotta take care of yourself and even if it's a job that you can't write, then my advice would be give yourself a deadline that your best friend's gonna call you on this day and say, how are you doing?

Do you still wanna do this? Do you miss your writing? What are other choices? Just to check in on you again, so you don't wake up 20 years later and start asking those questions, and the answer in a year might be. I actually enjoy this. I don't miss writing or I miss writing, but there's still no opportunities.

Like, that's totally fine, by the way. Like there's no judgment, but just, I would have somebody call you or check in on you in six months or a year to say, are you writing? How do you feel? I have a mentee that I check in every once in a while and she's just not ready yet. She's, she needs to have this job and she's writing poetry and doing things to keep the river, the water in the river.

But, and I respect that. That's what she wants to do and that's what she needs to do. I mean, she's a great writer, so I hope she does go back to it someday, but, you know, everybody's gonna make their choices. 

Lorien McKenna: I think we can normalize this a little bit too, especially as the industry is shifting or whatever is happening there seems to be a lot of us not actively.

I in staffing jobs or getting opportunities like we used to. So talking about this stuff with other writers I think is really great. What are you doing? What are your opportunities? What are the choices you've made? And that it is not that we don't have to live in the shame of it. I mean, that's always my go-to shame, so that's where I go.

But you I think so. That's why I like to talk about this stuff with other writers because we're all in this hustle and how can we help each other. 

Jeff Graham: Can I ask a quick follow up to that? Because I, I think what I'm curious about when you talk about that third version of like a career that may not even be adjacent to the industry, are there any like risks optically for our career where it's like, I feel a little bit like if I'm consulting or doing a micro budget film workshop that's adjacent to the industry, I still feel in it.

And when I talk about myself to other industry professionals, I feel like I'm a legit part of the pool. Whereas if it's like, I'm taking this marketing job, it's nine to five 40 hours a week, do I like run any risks optically of being like, oh, he left. 

Lorien McKenna: I think it's how you talk about it. Yeah. Right. So if I go get a part-time job at Barnes and Noble, I love books.

I love books. I love customer service. I like being in that space. So I would be like, I have this part-time job that I love. I get to be around books. I get a discount on books and like, part of it is I don't know what Meg what do you think you were, you know, an executive, if you heard a writer who was like working part-time at Barnes and Noble or in marketing?

Meg LeFauve: Well, you know, honestly. 

I'm gonna say this with love to all writers, executives, don't give a shit exactly what you're doing. Don't tell them like it's none of their business, none of their business doing. It's none of their business. Unless you're coming in and saying to me, you know what I did in the last six months?

I went and taught. A kindergarten class. Right. And I now have a show to talk about. That's right. I'd be like, that's fucking amazing. You actually have experience and you did it and you got a show out of it and it's so specific and so wonderful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I would tell them, or I was working at Barnes and Nobles and I have a show, or I have a movie, then definitely tell me that.

But the rest of it, you don't have to tell me that. Like, I don't need to know no's keeping track of us. Nobody's keeping track of...

Jeff Graham: That's so true.

Meg LeFauve: They, it's not like you're handing them a resume. Like in other businesses they literally can see the gap because they can see in the resume, they don't know what you've been doing.

For all they know, you've literally written a script for Netflix and they haven't heard about it. Like they don't know. Yeah. They're so busy. You can literally just be like, and if they ask you directly, which they never would because honestly that's way too much to think about and they're not thinking about it.

They're literally buying your concept or they're not, or they're asking you about what you're thinking about and they're just looking for concepts. So to me, I wouldn't bring it up and if for some reason they do. I would be, I would say I've been writing spec and it's amazing and I'm so excited I can't talk about it yet.

Even if I didn't even write a script, I would be like, I can't talk about it yet because it's not quite ready, but I'm gonna, it's, I'm so close. And meanwhile just, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, just bullshit. Like they don't know. Yeah. It's how you, sorry for the executives who's listening, but you know, it's kind of true.

You're too busy. And I mean that with love. The executives are too busy to track all that shit. 

Lorien McKenna: And what Patton Oswalt said when we had him on, right. Which was, no one's thinking about you at all, ever. 

Jeff Graham: It's true. It's true.

Lorien McKenna: In the most like, thank God kind of way. Yes. 

Meg LeFauve: No, like, do you have something to sell me? Do you have a great concept that I can take to my boss and show off at the staff meeting this week? No. Okay. What else? That's it.

Jeff Graham: Such a good answer. And it's our job to sell ourselves. We're storytellers. We tell the story of ourselves. So that was, I needed to hear that. Thank you so much for both of you.

It was great. Okay. With the industry being a little quieter right now, are there any new or alternative spaces that are making you feel hopeful or inspired about the future of storytelling? Anything we should be keeping on our radars or staying open to, specifically outside of the traditional staffing or development paths we're used to.

Meg LeFauve: The truth is nobody knows what's coming. Especially with AI coming and you know, I love talking to video game writers because it's such a different form and it's pretty exciting. Now are they gonna start using ai? I don't know. I don't know enough about it, but that's an area that I think is super fun and really evolving very quickly.

I think they will always need writers. I don't know. But you know, for me. What's keeps me hopeful is just reading books and saying kind of in stories. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, the stories I love and still thinking about characters. Yes. I don't, I'm not talking about money now. I'm talking about hope.

You have to just stay connected to yourself and your dreamer. Even if that's just journaling stories that, you know, 'cause you had to take this job that isn't in, in film. Again, I always prefer the adjacent, like consulting or doing something that teaching or something that still feels adjacent to it and is feeding that, that part of you.

But really ultimately it's just having the, in terms of the hope, emotional part of it, it's still you're not gonna stop being a storyteller. I understand in terms of money. That's a different topic, but right now, in terms of the hope I. You are a storyteller, that tap is still on. Those characters are still coming through you, where they go out to.

Yes. We all need to keep our eyes open and we need to help each other and tell each other of opportunities and things that are happening. Maybe something you did in the past, you have to go back to. Maybe you started in preschool, maybe you started in preschool, live action or preschool animation, and you have to go back to it, or, you know, I mean, you just have to, I think if we can try to stay open and willing to hear of the opportunity.

I'm not saying it's gonna happen tomorrow, but that's the only thing I can never do emotionally, spiritually, is believe that writing is a sacred choice and you've been chosen, and let's just see what the universe will bring you if you stay open to it and keep your eyes open. And it may not be anything that you thought of or the form that you would ever have imagined yourself. I never thought I would do animation, by the way, in a million years. So that, that's the only thing I can do in terms of the hope part. 

Lorien McKenna: And I think there are lots of spaces. So I started listening to audio books last couple of months, years as a way to, you know, chill and disassociate.

And I thought, well, where are these stories coming from that are not based on actual books? And there's a whole space where you can write original audio books for companies. I don't know if it's covered by WGA, I know there's all these places, but you know, where you can make content for yourself on a podcast like scripted stuff on a podcast.

You can, there's places you can create your own thing to feel like you're doing something so that it's not just writing a script and waiting to get staffed, like. Write a, you know, I'm working on one right now or working on, I had been working one, I come back to it of a scripted audio drama that is like 10 minutes at a time.

So 10 minutes in an episode. So, like, just as a thing that I know I'm gonna make. So that can, so I think it's about generating your own stuff and what you're interested in too.

Meg LeFauve: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they are, there are I know it's way down, but they are still very slowly, quietly, at least on the feature side.

I'm, I don't know about television 'cause it's not my place at the moment, but they're still, you know, buying things. Yes. But they're high concept things. They're big. This meets that genre driven check off the boxes, things and. The trick is you just gotta put your soul and lava inside of that, right?

So it might be generating a lot of those kinds of ideas, right? I mean, that's probably what I would be doing. If I had to go out and pitch right now, I would. I would probably be doing that. I would probably be like, you want a Christmas movie with a love story? How about this? I would just be really dog with a bone.

Does it mean it'll work? I don't know. But that's what I would be doing. And I'm sure you're all doing that. So I'm telling you what you're already doing, but. 

Jeff Graham: Great, super helpful. My big question is this, in an industry where nothing is certain changes the norm and things falling apart as expected, how many projects in the pipeline are too many?

As a writer director, I find myself attaching to direct features, writing features, discussing, developing features, giving notes, developing TV and more. But if one thing goes, everything else might go or get pushed. And of course I know rest, self-care, et cetera, are essential. We are self generators, but when are we generating too much?

Lorien McKenna: When you're not finishing something, that's how, you know, that's how I know if I just have too many projects and I'm not actually finishing one. 

Meg LeFauve: That's a very good indication. When I asked my manager this, he said, I hope you have that problem. I hope you have the problem. And other things have to wait because something goes Yes.

So the answer was there. You can't...

Lorien McKenna: The joy is, I'm so sorry, you're in second position. 

Meg LeFauve: Yes. Right. Sorry. Like I'm a, I, we keep going. Nobody in this town is gonna be upset that you have to say something's going. Yeah. So in terms of the optics of the profession, don't worry about it. Yeah. It happens all the time.

Lorien McKenna: And in terms of personal fatigue... 

Meg LeFauve: That's different. Yeah.

Lorien McKenna: That's different. Yeah. And I think, yeah. 

Meg LeFauve: Yeah. And craft wise, are you doing it to avoid, are you not finishing? Right. That's what, and then fatigue is real. I mean, it's really real. And I think you just have to know yourself. Like, I know I pretty much, even though I was a producer and had, you know, as a producer, you can have 20 projects all rumbling around or more.

But I found that too. Was all I could truly, deeply work on at the same time. And that's even sometimes having to put one aside and just really do one and come back. And then a third one, I always have little pots going like, that's an idea, let's put that over here. I just heard about a book that was made into a movie years and years ago and I was like, you know, that would actually be a great TV show.

Like I, so you know, I'll put it down. So I have a lot of ideas popping, but I really only do two. And that's me though. But you just have to know yourself in terms of your question of how much is too many and, but I think ance is the best answer. If you're not completing anything, then it's avoidance that, that panic, putting yourself on too many things.

Lorien McKenna: And in terms of like, it sounds like you're doing things this question asker, questioner, asker they're a writer and a director and TV and feature. And so there's a lot of different genres and formats and stuff going on, and I think if you feel passionately that you can execute those, then go for it.

I mean, I'm attached to a direct and animated feature that I hope goes, but I also am pitching a TV show in animation. And then I have a live action show I'm working on and I'm writing a feature script that's live action. So I'm, I love all these things, but it's about focusing my time in the right way, so I have to pick one.

That's when I'm at my best when I pick one. 

Meg LeFauve: Yeah. And it's legit. You gotta have a lot of pots. 'cause even to get one to go and get paid for it, it takes, you don't know, you just have to have a lot of stuff. 

Lorien McKenna: I would love to have something in second position. I remember that like, oh, this is gonna be first position and that's gonna be second position.

It just felt like such a rich, not money wise, but just like, what a I'm, you know, this has to be in second position and everyone's disappointed, but they'll wait and you know, and then it's just makes them want more. It makes them want more. Yes. Yeah. 

Jeff Graham: Awesome. Our next question is, what do I tell young people coming up?

It's hard to mentor. Keep writing. How does that pay the bills? I don't really have anything to say positive right now. I need something to say, writing for yourself without an expectation that it'll be produced. Tough pill. Even if you get eight episodes, how do you live off that? How do you save for the next inevitable dry spell?

Lorien McKenna: I think this can be something we tell to young people, emerging writers, professional writers, anybody. This is the reality across the board as a professional in this creative industry, this like, yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't, yeah. 

Meg LeFauve: I know an academy nominated writer who used to have first position, second position, third, like had a dry spell that was more than a year long.

It happens. That just happens. So there again, I feel like the question has two veins. Yeah. One is, that's just part of, if you're coming into this industry, you always have to be saving. Anybody can have a drive spell always. I let my husband do that.

He's really good at it. 'cause I would be like, oh my gosh, I can buy those pants because we just got paid. And he's like, this check has to last. Right. Potentially. Like he has it down to, we have to put our taxes assignment, we have to put our, this assignment, but like, and let's, we won't even get into how much money you immediately lose from the lawyer, the manager and the agent immediately.

Right. So yes that's part of being a writer. And there can be huge dry spells. Forget about what's happening in the industry and it's especially hard right now. 'cause the other thing I hear inside of here. Is that, especially in television. The ladder is evaporating in terms of how you used to go up the ladder because they're not doing those big rooms and those young, those rooms are now full of really experienced writers because there's no job.

So the, how do the younger writers get in? Like, I do think that's a real, and I think the WGA is worried about it too. Like it's a real issue. Then there's the, so that it's real and I don't lie to people and I'm mentoring them. That's real. Yeah. I was talking to a young woman yesterday who's actually a intern for me at my production company, and she said, you know what my generation's doing, they're all believing they have to go get famous on TikTok in order to pay for their writing and directing careers.

So to me there's this whole other generational approach to, they know they're not under any assumption that they don't have to finance themselves somehow another way in order to get that break in. You know, she's, you know, she also understands you can go to an agency and go up the ladder to get onto a show, blah, blah, blah.

But she's also very aware that does that work anymore. So I think the younger generation is actually more honest about it than we are in some ways, and I can't tell her don't do that because a, I don't know anything about TikTok fame and how much it pays, but beef, it works. It works. And then there's the emotional social, there's the emotional question about that, right?

So I try to be honest with people I mentor. About how challenging it is. I'd be, I'm trying to be honest about how I see what they're buying right now. You know, if I have a mentor, a mentee who, when they talk about their projects, they're mostly talking about social issues and they're really not high concept people and they're not genre people, then I really wanna say, not that they're gonna make any money here either, but are you really a documentarian, right?

Like are you are like how, tell me, shows tell me. I just want them to think about their own career in their own way, right? You're gonna have to find your own ladder. So what show, what are the shows that are doing that social stuff? Like I just try to get them to get real about it in terms of the business of what they're going into and where their voice fits to get paid.

And then the last thing I do is I do believe, 'cause I might be totally naive, but I do believe they need storytellers and they need original voices and they need people who are passionate. So. I still believe in that. I still believe that we need writers and we need their stories. So again, I'm not saying to the person who's really mostly in love with social issues to not do it.

But I will ask them about what's the story and what's the sugar here? But you know, we need them. So I still believe in it. I still believe in it, yes, as it's a hard climb right now. I'm not. But I don't know. It was a hard climb when I, as a feature writer. There was never a ladder. 

Lorien McKenna: There was never, and I think under this question too, is there's something in the mentor mentee relationship that is, the mentor is successful at this thing and as doing it, working, and then you're working with a mentee, someone who's like, I wanna be where that mentor is.

But if you're someone who mentors people and you're not actually working, it's hard to be able to say, here's what I did, here's what I'm doing in order to survive this when we're all in the same place. So I think it's about being honest with where you are. As a person who's a professional writer who is in this struggle right now, like I'm writing without expectation that it's gonna get so purchased, but I really hope it does.

How do I save for the next two years on whatever I'm getting paid now? And I think it's just about telling the truth. This is what it is, and I'm in the same struggle. We're sort of all here. I remember saying this to a mentee at Cinestory and she was telling me like, I just want this to happen and this to happen and this house.

And I was like, me too. Like we're all in this same space together. I've, I have maybe different access and have had different experiences, but it, there is no magic key I have that I can unlock this gate and be like, ah, I'm, I have arrived. Because I could get kicked right back out of the garden and they'll lock the gate behind me again.

I hope not. That was a terrible metaphor. I'm not gonna put that outta the universe. No. I wanna be in the garden. I wanna be in the secret garden. You're in the garden. Yeah. I think with mentors, it's just telling the truth. 

Jeff Graham: Yeah. How do writers effectively pitch projects on Zoom? You don't wanna overperform, but you also don't wanna come in with low energy.

Us writers have to keep executives and producers engaged on Zoom, but it's a tricky balance because most of us don't want to indulge in clownery. 

Lorien McKenna: Okay. So I love pitching on Zoom. When we changed over, when we started pitching on Zoom during the, I was like, I hate this. My charm and passion is all about being in the per, you know, in the room and connecting and body language and all this stuff.

And and then I started pitching on Zoom and I'm very carefully watching. The other person's reactions to me, even when you just first show up on the camera, like what kind of room are they in? What, how are they dressed up? Are they casual and sort of matching their energy in a way so that you're not coming in too hot or too cool?

I'm always coming in hot and I, maybe I do indulge in clowny, but I I'm watching for that. I'm paying attention to how many people are on the Zoom. I'm paying attention to people's like micro facial expressions, you know, to see like what their reactions to me are. But then once the pitch starts and, you know, everyone puts themselves on Zoom and I can't even really see all the windows anymore.

I just. I tell my story with love and I don't worry about it. I then I, you know, I'm paying attention to the beginning, but then I'm just like, here's why I love this project and here's what it is. And I do it the way I want it to be done, and I'm not really worried about it. I'm pre presenting myself on Zoom as I would be presenting myself if we were working together.

So, because that's a piece of what I'm offering. I bring this energy to the room and this kind of enthusiasm, and these are the things I care about, and this is what I get emotional about. And it, and I have fun. I did have an in-person pitch before the strike and I was so uncomfortable. I was like, what do I do with my hands?

And are they looking at my feet and do I look over there and who do I look at? It was very weird. I have to get used to being back in the room in person. But I think it's be who you would be if you were working with that person. 

Meg LeFauve: Great advice. My only thing to add is. Two things, what you said.

I just stay with the story that I love. I'm telling you a story I love and I love these characters and I love this. Yeah. So I have energy and up. I hate when you're pitching to a black box because they've turned their camera off. Like, I find it so rude. I might ask at the beginning, can we turn our cameras on?

It helps. But I just, you know, ultimately you're speaking into a void, so just love your story. And I also really do like visuals even in person. I like to put visuals on the table, so I do like creating mood and giving them somebody to look at. And so I, not everybody needs to do this. This is what I like to do.

I do like to have visuals.

Lorien McKenna: Oh, on a Zoom. Definitely some kind of deck.

Meg LeFauve: So they're not looking at my face even necessarily that they're looking at, this is the world and here she is, and then look, she's gonna meet him and then, oh my gosh, here's her dad's coming. And you know, then you're seeing things and then this person, the next person, and then here's, they go on this car ride.

And so there's an issue, you know, I like to like visually.

Lorien McKenna: Yeah, but it's not a deck that has like, words on it. Like, no. These are images. These are just like, I'll say like, this is Caroline and there's a picture of like the actresses that I kind of have a comp for Caroline, you know, and like at Trader Joe's, she would do this in this situation, right?

Like, yeah, because that's Trader Joe's is always my reaction, always my setup. But yeah I actually like when I can't see anybody and I'm just in it. 'cause it reminds me of being on stage when I was just on stage and like, I can't see the audience at all and I'm just in the world and they are, witnessing my performance, my joy, but then I'm different, right? Because I like to act and perform and be in that space. So I think it's different for everybody, but love your story. 

Jeff Graham: Great advice. Okay. This says, at what point is it time to move on or to pivot? 

Meg LeFauve: So the question there is, do you mean with your life or do you mean with a particular project? Easier to answer the project one, I think. 

Lorien McKenna: Yeah. 'cause like career, marriage and there's so many things. What's the pivot?

Jeff Graham: Should I get a divorce? 

Lorien McKenna: Pivot. Pivot, right. With the project... 

Meg LeFauve: I mean, the truth is, the answer to both of those for me is, you know, you do know that your highest self, like I do believe you've got a lot of selves in there.

They're all different ages and they're arguing about different things and there's managers managing them. And I just find this fascinating and it's. This form of thinking of yourself has been really helping me. But above them all is a very ancient knowing self, and it knows when you need to pivot and when you don't.

If you're trying to figure out is it time or not? Or get to that access to that higher self, you can just have all the pros and cons talk it out. Like, okay, the con of keep going is this. The pros are. And if literally if the pro, if it's a project, if the pro is just, I just love it, well then just keep going because the cons are just getting scared and, but if you still love it, maybe you take a break.

Maybe you have somebody read it to get some perspective, but if it's still burning and it's still a fire I would let it continue to go. But if it's become something, this happened to Lian and I were writing something, the notes just killed it. Like the notes just turned it into a show that honestly, if they'd green lit it, we probably would've died because we were like, oh, we don't even know what this show is.

It's just become a Frankenstein monster or something of what the hell we started with. That's when you gotta be like, I'm just abandoning this. Like, thank God they passed. Like neither of us ever said we should go back to that. We were just like, that was bad. Like the original idea. Still good. But we just had to let it go.

Yeah. And, but we didn't go back to the original idea either.

Lorien McKenna: No. Like, no, it was of its time.

Meg LeFauve: It felt like it passed. Yeah. And some things are of their time when you are a person who you were and even if it's a good concept, it's just not who you are anymore. Or that part of you has been resolved or isn't that up in arms about anything anymore.

And you outgrew it. And that's totally fine too, by the way. That can happen with relationships too. So I feel like you try to access your highest self by doing writing exercises or talking it out with a friend, doing pros and cons, whatever you need to do. But ultimately, do you still love it or not?

Like I've had a project, I'm not kidding, for like 10 years, but I still love it. I pick it up and I feel like I'm getting in a warm bath, so I'm just gonna keep going. 

Lorien McKenna: I think for career the last couple of months, I think 2025 has been a real existential crisis for me that I think is finally resolving.

I got to this point where, and I've talked about this on some of the episodes where I am like, who am I? If I'm not what I am, like if I'm not a writer, who am I? What's under that? And that sort of desperate grasping, clawing, I have to be a writer and the fear and terror under what if I'm not a writer, right?

What if I do decide to go do something else professionally? Can I still do the podcast? Am I letting people down? Am I letting people all the people down who've believed in me and who I've essentially like trained in a way to like see me as a writer and a storyteller? 'cause that's the narrative I've been driving and I got to a point, I dunno, about six weeks ago, I think, where I was like, what if I'm not a writer?

And I sat with that really hard. Like, what if I'm not? And it didn't break me. And I thought, okay, now I actually have a choice. And I get to think about and feel about what it really is about being a writer under the outside expectations and the fear and the shame and all the hard work I've invested in this, and do I wanna continue with this?

And the answer was yes. And that I feel like I have more peace and calm around that now rather than the, if I'm not a writer, then what am I, then I'm lost. And so it's more like, no, I'm a writer because I love it because I wanna be a storyteller because I find joy in it and power and escape and mission.

But that for me was that conversation with my higher self, which was. Why is that so important for me to hold onto? And for me it's always about choice. Being trapped in something or being stuck in something is really terrifying for me. So that is how I figured out whether I should pivot or not away from being a screenwriter or from being a TV writer.

I don't think I've talked about that with anyone out loud. Exactly. So thank you for asking that question. But it feels good to articulate that 'cause it has been a, it's been a really scary couple of months for me about being a writer, especially right now, the way the industry is. 

Jeff Graham: That's a beautiful answer. Thank you for sharing. Okay, next question. How do I know when an idea is baked enough to show my reps? 

Lorien McKenna: Depends on your reps and your relationship with them. And what the terms of what you've agreed upon with your rep about when you show them things. I've sent my rep a finished script before I had to call her the other day and I was like, I keep trying to write this pitch.

I need to just talk to you for like an hour and I need to just spit out ideas and I need you to ask me questions. And so that's what we did. And, but I was very clear about how I would like to use her time and she was game because she likes that part of it. So it was helpful for me too 'cause it helped me figure out what I was missing about the older idea, what I was banging up against because she asked such good questions.

But I think it's about whatever the agreement is with your rep that you have about your relationship and the work. 

Jeff Graham: Can I ask like a personal follow up to this that I'm sort of dealing with right now and we can see if it makes sense for the show. For writers who have made something or have like producers who are interested in you as a writer?

I'll just be honest. I made the mistake of pitching something to a producer who liked my first movie that I was early on pitching it. He was excited about it. I have a, I had a draft that I thought felt pretty good. Then I got notes that I thought were great and I was like, I've gotta piece this together.

And I've been working on it. And I feel like we were emailing about this thing like three weeks ago. And how do we know when something is ready for a producer who likes something we pitched? Does the script have to be a bulletproof 100% version of the idea, or is it something the producer wants to work with you on?

Even if you know, deep down maybe it's the B plus version of it. 

Meg LeFauve: Well, I mean, this doesn't help, but it does depend on the producer, right? Like I've had producers that would totally be able to read a b plus version and they actually wanna build the Lego set with you. Yeah. And. If they don't want it handed to them finished, they wanna be part of it.

And I've had producers who are completely the opposite. Like, what is, why did you hand me something in B plus? Like, what the hell and mission over, like literally. So some of it, if you can find out any intel on that producer and that will help you. No. You know, asking around people who've worked with them, I don't know, is it crazy to cold call a writer and say, I'm ask them the question that you've worked with this producer.

What was your take on it? Writers, nobody talks to writers. They'd be probably happy to talk to you about it. You also might find out, do not work with this producer. Yeah. Or, you know, you might wanna you know, make call, call some writers who worked with that producer and see, 

Lorien McKenna: I think that's such a great idea.

I had writers call me, they were rewriting me on a project, which is a huge rite of passage. I was very excited to get this call from writers I respected. They're like, so this is weird, but we're. Rewriting your version of this. I'm like, great. Tell me what you're, you know, they were asking me about the producer and what working with them was like.

And I got to be honest 'cause they're writers and I love that they were rewriting me. 

Meg LeFauve: And I guess if you can't, if you don't have six degrees of separation, you can't get to the writer that have worked with them or whatever, then I'd go with a, because that's the safer bet. Because I don't know. That's what I would do. I would get it as good as I could.

If you're worried about time again, people are so busy. 

Jeff Graham: Right.

Meg LeFauve: I know three weeks is not a long time to a writer, to a producer brain. If you're three months out, you know, I would probably call them at the month mark and say, I've had such a great new idea for this, so I know you're waiting for it, but I think it's worth waiting for.

And they'll be like, okay, that's gonna be like, sure. Because the, and I don't know about your producer, so I'm not speaking specifically to you, Jeff, but the other reason to go for the A in my opinion, is because a lot of producers are gonna hand it to some intern for coverage. 

Jeff Graham: Right. 

Meg LeFauve: And they're not even gonna read it.

And so now you're actually having to get by. I love you all, but people who are not that trained, who have, they don't know how to assess something necessarily that they don't like and yet might be commercial or whatever. And that producer might just read the log line and their summary and that's it. And then they're just gonna send you a quick email, right?

So I'm not saying that's who you're dealing with 'cause I don't know, but a lot of them are just gonna have it covered. And the problem with that is now your B plus version has coverage out there that will travel right around town. So if you can't find out the way the producer likes to play in the sandbox from another writer, I'd go for A.

Jeff Graham: I think like my fear and I know we need to move on, is that I'll just never send it. Like I'll go to my grave trying to make it perfect and never put myself...

Lorien McKenna: Oh, do you need a deadline from Meg?

Jeff Graham: Maybe.

Meg LeFauve: I love giving deadlines.

Lorien McKenna: Yay. Here we go.

Jeff Graham: I think I do. I just keep setting deadlines and I'm actually pushing through drafts and I'm like, is this a me problem? I never gonna put myself out there with this great contact. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm just therapizing.

Meg LeFauve: Well, who's the reader that you had read it is the one who should tell you yes, it's ready to go. 'cause they're the one that gave you this great idea. 

Jeff Graham: Yeah. I'm waiting on notes from them right now.

Meg LeFauve: If they say, yeah, this version, you did it, then fuck. Then you have to send, and now you have to tell us what happens next week.

Jeff Graham: Okay. That's a great note. That is what I'll do. Thank you for letting me infuse myself in this. 

Meg LeFauve: No, of course. 

Jeff Graham: I'm like, I think I might be stalling. Okay. Here's what I've been wondering about in this scarcity economy, or at least perceived scarcity.

How to think about deciding which OWA to engage with, set up with producers versus studio fame of ip, bake off with exclusive submission, level of personal interest versus inspiration versus I need money. So I guess the short version of the question is like, with a million awas out there, which are the most strategic for us to engage with?

Meg LeFauve: Well, if it's set up at a studio, that's the first one. Like everything else is maybe's, right? Like, is this set up at a studio? That means it's a concept they would make if they can get the right script. So already you're a million miles ahead of all the other open writing assignments. So, and I know pro writers who will not even look at anything else unless it's set up, because otherwise they're just doing their own specs, right?

So for me, if it's set up at a studio and there is anything in it that you feel you can personally get. I'd go dig around in there. If it's a bake off, I don't know. At the current, you know, we all need to work, bake off then like, 'cause you don't know what, if you go into that bake off and they don't pick you.

They even do that crazy thing where they steal a couple of your ideas. But you know what they also did? They liked you. 

Lorien McKenna: Yeah. 

Meg LeFauve: And they're gonna have another open writing assignment and they're gonna say, you know what? That one didn't work, but we have this other one and we think you're perfect for it.

Like, part of this is getting a relationship with these executives so they're thinking about you. That you got in the room to pitch to them. Yep. Right. And they're gonna remember you. So I think sometimes just, I mean, you have to deliver, you have to be interesting and pitch them something interesting.

Don't get me wrong, you can't just, you know, be setting up these meetings and not delivering something. But, so for me it's studio. It's set up, get in the room, do the bake off, find something that you can. Find that's uniquely you inside of that concept and how you are approaching it and what the questions you have about that open writing assignment.

And what's interesting to me is this, and I'd go this direction and ba blah, b, ba, right? They care about that, right? And then the next level is it's with the producer. But the truth is then my question to you, is your spec not as good as this producer's idea or ip? I guess if it's really big fancy IP that your agent or manager says there is a market for this IP that's pretty close to almost set up, but you're gonna have to go out and get it set up.

So you could do a lot of work and everybody passes. But if it's ip, your reps are telling you it's IP that is valuable. 'cause there's IP that is not. And it's you are more excited about it than your own spec idea, then that would make sense to me to do spend your free writing doing that than your own spec.

But that's, and that's very much my agent's advice too, which is always when you get in, when I'm in this position of, you know, I gotta get a job is okay, but it's set up at a studio. So that is so far down the road versus spending six months to a year developing something as a pitch that then they pass.

Lorien McKenna: Because then you can't take that pitch really anywhere else 'cause it's their... 

Meg LeFauve: Because it's that producers. Yeah. Versus if it's your spec. Yeah. You've written a spec. So there it is. And now that, now those people can get to know you as a writer too, right? So they might not be buying it, but now they're like, oh my God, she's such a great writer with this.

So, I dunno. That's how I think about it, but, and there's no wrong, there's no right or wrong answer by the way. It's so personal. Yeah. That's how I assess it.

Lorien McKenna: So let's break this down. So an OWA is an open writing assignment that is either a studio, like say Paramount or Sony. They have an idea in house or a piece of ip, and they put out the call and they say, we're looking, you know, the majors are not put out the call.

It means they're having meetings with reps and showrunners or screenwriters and they're saying, we have this idea. And then they would ask you the writer to go out and come up with a take on it and come pitch it back to them. And a off is where there's more than you in the mix, coming to them with takes.

And then they pick one or they pick none. And then they pay you to develop the idea, right? They engage you to, okay, we're gonna hire you to write this movie based on your pitch. Right. That's the, when it's at a studio, when it's at a producer, it's a somebody saying, Hey, I have this idea, I have this IP.

And then you collaborate with that person to develop the idea, and then you still have to go out and then sell it to the studio or the person who's gonna pay you to do it. So like you said at the end there, Meg, it's more work. 

Jeff Graham: If you wanna see a version of this on TV right now, the new show, The Studio on Apple. The fictional studio gets the right to the IP of Kool-Aid as an idea.

And we get to see real life directors and producers playing mock versions of themselves and what take they would bring on the story of Kool-Aid, particularly the Kool-Aid. Man, it's very fun show. 

Meg LeFauve: Oh my God, it's so funny. And they're doing all kind like they, the one this week, they're like doing genres. So like... 

Jeff Graham: It was amazing. 

Meg LeFauve: They're literally shooting it like a noir, mystery thriller. But it's so funny, there's so many inside jokes. It's just really funny. And it's honestly not that far away from the truth. No, it's not true. None of it. Of course, people don't steal film cans and stuff, but it's very funny.

Jeff Graham: We're trying to get those guys in the show. Hopefully we do.

Lorien McKenna: I feel like if you're listening... 

Jeff Graham: yes. 

Lorien McKenna: Contact us. 

Jeff Graham: Quickly. I, this is, how do you find out what's actually going on in the industry? I have a podcast recommendation for this one, but I can let you guys jump in first. 

Lorien McKenna: This was literally my question.

Jeff Graham: Oh!

Lorien McKenna: I was like, how do you find out you have another podcast? Go.

Jeff Graham: I will say I listen to a podcast, Matthew Belloni, who used to run the Hollywood Reporter, started a subscription based like insider news source called Puck. And I feel like it's people who have left like the very enfranchised, like media heavy institutions, and it's all like independent entertainment journalists who have come together to try to report the truth.

And they get scoops a lot. And he has a podcast called The Town. He does two or three shows a week. Actually, it was in the show, the studio, there was an inside joke about it. But I find that he seems pretty ahead of what's going on and I find that he's very, he's not loyal to anyone, so you get a lot of truthful takes on what's happening.

So I think The Town is pretty good and he might be fun to have on the show. That would be my thought. 

Meg LeFauve: Yeah. Thank you. 

Lorien McKenna: That's awesome. 

Meg LeFauve: I get the email, I get Puck's email, which is political, fashion, and Hollywood. It's everything. The inside scoop on everything. 

Jeff Graham: Yeah. 

Meg LeFauve: Which sometimes can be overwhelming.

And sometimes I'm like, I don't wanna know, I don't wanna know. The inside scoop on Hollywood. It's too, it's because it can be very kind of, you know, stocks and who's buying blah, blah, blah. But that sounds like a really good podcast. 

Jeff Graham: This last question says, what about the topic of being a mother and a writer? Any thoughts?

Lorien McKenna: Super easy. All you have to do is just do it. And it comes really easily and naturally because being a writer and being a mother are both just really easy and work together really well.

Meg LeFauve: It's so funny. We should ask our kids this question. My, my husband found a recording that my son did who's 21 now, and he did it.

Oh my God. I should get this in for you to play on the show, on this bod on the podcast. He did it when he was like seven and it's Aiden whispering into my husband's phone. Writers are crazy. Writers are crazy. It's so...

Lorien McKenna: New theme song!

Meg LeFauve: It's the whole song because my parents are writers and like he just does the whole thing, so.

Listen, when you're passionate about something. Yes. I think the good side is your kids see you going after a dream. And I think I've told this story on the show when I was at Pixar and Broken Hearted, that I was away from my kids so much, and Aiden at a little bit older but not much said, no, it's okay mama, because I, when I am grown up, I wanna go after my dream too, and I want my family to help me.

So he saw it. He is a, an aspirational kid and he is going for his dreams. And, but he also really understands the sacrifice of it. And what it takes. So there's a really beautiful side for them to see the ups and downs of. I will say to my kids, I'm sorry, I am so tired right now because I gave so much today writing and I'm disappointed by some notes that came in and I just need some space today. Now they don't necessarily give it to you. 

Lorien McKenna: That's when they jump on you. 

Meg LeFauve: Right. But it is used, but it goes in their little brains. You'd be surprised how much is actually going in your brains versus me just snapping at him and then he would think it's him. 

So I always try to tell them where I am and that it's okay to be there because I'm human sometimes I just have to say, okay, I'm, everybody leave me alone for a little bit.

But, and then they're there for the joy of it too, when that thing comes in or the movie comes out and they get to go. And so there's a be I think it's a beautiful, the life of an artist and them being part of it is a beautiful way to teach them to be in the world. 

But there's also just time. It's really hard, especially when your kids are younger. And my kid has special needs, so it's still a really big issue for me there. Amount of time he needs. And I have to be better at my boundaries for work. I find the hardest thing is that work is all the time. Like the best part is yes, you could write at 11 o'clock at night, but you're writing at 11 o'clock at night and now you're tired and in the morning you're yelling at your kids.

And like I have a, I have to get better at the boundaries around the writing. So that I do, I take care of myself so I can be present with them or God help me if I'm stuck in my writing. I'm so not, I'm so bitchy and, but honestly then I just say to them, I'm stuck in my writing and I am gonna be grumpy, and I'm so sorry, but I'm just grumpy about it.

Then of course they're like, let me help you. It was really hard.

I'm just stupid.

Lorien McKenna: When she was younger, it was much harder because I felt like every second I was focusing on my work was I was stealing myself from her, from my family. And that was, that's always really hard for me. Because like you said, Meg, when you are passionate about something, the leave, you know, my husband, my work, my daughter are the things that are most important to me.

And then of course, now I said that out loud and I think about a whole bunch of other things that are important. But, you know, my, my family and my passion and it's really hard to not wear myself out, burn myself out, which I have been doing lately. 'cause I've been so working so hard on this project.

But then it is nice, you know, I picked my daughter up from school yesterday, which I get to do right at three o'clock because I'm working. And she says, tell me everything you did today. And I said, well, I had a pitch. And she said, how'd it go? And I said, it went to, she's like, oh, is this for that project?

Like, she knows my project. So she gets to be excited and. You know, every time I have a meeting that she's aware of, she says, good luck, mama. And it's just so nice to feel like I've created this space for her where she respects what I do. And even though it's not, you know, right now bringing in money, truck isn't backing up to my house at this particular moment in time.

But just that she sees how passionate I am about it. And she is one of the reasons I moved to LA because I wanted her to see me doing something that I loved as a mom, as a woman, as the income earner. That you got to take these big risks. So it's really important to me, but it's still really hard.

You know, I was up a lot last night with her 'cause whatever, we had every possible type one tech failure in the middle of the night, you know, for hours last night. So I'm not really awake right now, but I still have to work. But that's just, I think every mom experiences that, every dad, every parent, every guardian.

Right? You're, it's a lot. And she also being her mom, finds its way into my projects in interesting ways that I really value. 

Jeff Graham: What you both are talking about is a gift that you are giving your kids that they have a version of someone that they love and respect living that life. It'll give them permission, more freedom to do it.

Lorien McKenna: And I love Meg, Aiden's the director, and Quincy wants to be a director and an editor. And you know, they've written things and I feel like that's such a special thing to be able to give them that. Quincy has this fearlessness around creativity that I find inspirational and I'm so jealous of it.

She'll be like, I'm gonna go write a short, and she bops off, she writes the short, she reads it to me. I'm like, oh, that's really good. It has the beginning, middle, and an end, and there's dramatic tension and a character. I like what? I didn't have that at 13. You know, so, you know, and I think it's really special, but it is excruciating at times.

So I don't know what the answer is to that question. If that isn't even a question. So thank you to all the writers who sent in questions for us. As always, it's wonderful to hear from our audience and what you all are curious about, and I think all these questions that we got from professional writers I think are valuable to everybody.

They definitely were for me.

Meg LeFauve: And remember, you are not alone and keep writing.