258 | From Assistant to Executive Producer: Frida Perez on Co-Creating The Studio

Apple TV+’s THE STUDIO is both a razor-sharp satire and a surprisingly heartfelt love letter to Hollywood — born out of Seth Rogen’s own frustrations and empathy for studio executives. For co-creator Frida Perez, the show explores the spectrum between art and commerce, a balance that serves as a guiding principle for writing its hilariously flawed (but deeply human) characters. In this episode, Frida unpacks how the team crafted one of the year’s most acclaimed shows — and how she found her voice in the process.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Meg: Hey everyone, welcome back to The Screenwriting Life. I'm Meg LeFauve, and today I am thrilled to be talking about one of my favorite shows of the year, The Studio on Apple TV+. The show is about the head of a film studio played by Seth Rogen, who realizes his dream job may actually be a nightmare, a sharp satire about Hollywood.

It is one of the funniest shows of the year, and rings with authenticity and originality. We are welcoming one of the show's creators and writers, Frida Perez. Frida is a filmmaker from the Bronx who graduated from Brown University, moved to LA and built her voice through short films and behind the scenes work, eventually co-creating The Studio and earning an Emmy nomination – woo-hoo! – for Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series, one of the 23 Emmy nominations the show has received. 

In her early days, Frida worked as Seth Rogen's assistant, but quickly rose through the ranks. Another great perspective that I'm excited to dive in with her for all our emerging writers and workers out there.

Frida, welcome to the show. 

Frida: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. What a nice intro. Thank you. 

Meg: Oh, you're welcome. I'm so excited. Okay, so we're gonna start with Adventures in Screenwriting. And Frida has agreed to be game. I will go first just to, you know, lower the bar, so to speak. 

But basically, if anybody's been following the show, you know that my husband and I are working on this project. It's been going up and it's been going down, and we thought it was amazing. And then we got notes and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, we got the note, one of the notes was, we really are attaching to the characters, but not enough.

So it's a first act issue. It's a first act issue. It should be a surgical, just, you know, surgically attached to the characters more, but just a crazy note if you're a writer, because here's the thing I wanna talk about just real quickly. If you're gonna surgically try to emotionally deepen the attachment to the characters, it still has to be economical. You have to keep the same tone. So whatever ideas you're coming up with, these new things, they have to be economical. Keep the tone, get to the story. It can't make everything longer. It has to be active. You have to put in behavior. It has to be about relationships.

It has to be something the audience can experience. It's not something we're talking about that they're not experiencing. You gotta keep it moving. And ultimately, I have done so many versions I can't even tell you because to do all of that is, you know, I just want everyone to know. Emerging writers, it's hard.

You do many versions. You know, if you're in a TV room, you got people throwing ideas and you're moving very quickly, and Frida can talk about that. But when you're a feature writer, it's like you alone or you and your partner just kind of, okay, we wrote this version today. Nope. That makes it way too long. We're it's, nope, that's all backstory. Nope. I don't care about that. Nope. That changes the tone. All of those things. 

So, you know, I think I have a version, but you know, we'll see in a couple days, but I really, it's holding, I'm very excited. It's holding, you know, it's going through character, it's going through relationships, the stakes, all of that stuff.

So I am crossing my fingers that it will hold, but I just want the emerging writers to know this is just part of the creative process is you will write all day and you will throw it out. Over and over just for this one thing. And you know, yes, it happens at Pixar, yes, you might be going faster because so many people throwing, but in a way that goes farther longer.

'cause now you've got so many ideas and like, how do you execute all of these? So it's just a normal part of the process. And I'm also talking to myself right now of course, because there's days that you're like, oh my gosh, I should be better at this. All right, Frida. 

Frida: Yeah, I was about to say we do that all the time.

I've been in the writer's room this week for season two of Studio, and it's like exactly what you said. We write probably like you have 100 ideas and then you pick 10 maybe if not one. You know, like writing isn't about writing the f it's not about writing the first idea that comes to your head.

It's about going through maybe every single angle, throwing out every inspiration, every source of any, anything you have and like surgically like finding, which is like the very best that rises to the top. Yeah. It's like beyond normal. 

Meg: I feel like that is the process, you know, like that is the process. And then sometimes you have to just realize, okay, none of these ideas work. Yeah. And then you are going to the grocery store and out of nowhere you're like, oh, that idea we had three months ago. Would now work. Yeah. If we take some of these, all these other things we did and we put it in. Yeah. That's what happened.

And it's just, there's no way to skip it. There's no way to jump this part of the process. You literally just have to write, or at least, you know, converse, pitch all those ideas to get to the idea. Don't you think? Like you can't skip it? No. 

Frida: Yeah. I mean it's quite, it's literally a puzzle.

Like you can go through a thousand puzzle pieces and you just have to find the one that's correct. You know, and it's, yeah, and throw, it's like fun also to kind there's something like liberating, 

Meg: If you let it be fun. 

Frida: Yes. Yeah. Like it's nice that you don't have to attach to every idea you have.

If anything, you're just I enjoy just like kind of exercising the muscle. And just exerting and expressing things until the right one really lands. And I'm like, oh, this feels different than anything else for it. This is a special idea for its own reason. That's so, it's so fun. 

Meg: And can you, when you were an emerging writer, though, I sometimes think emerging writers and me on a bad day feel like, well.

I've gone through so many ideas. Either this idea sucks or I suck because I've tried too many different ideas. Maybe it just doesn't work. And what I keep reminding myself is, no, you've only done 10. You have to do a lot more before you make that kind of decision. Did you ever feel that when you were starting out?

Frida: Oh, yeah. I feel it all the time still. I am gonna give this conversation an asterisk because I've had a pretty a fun week, honestly. But it's not always that fun. Like sometimes it's like you're saying, like you're just feeling really down on yourself and nothing's working. You doubt if you've ever had a good idea in your life.

Yeah. I totally, yeah, I, so it's not even like it happened, it's not even like something that happened early on in my career. I think it happens. It just comes in waves, you know, like sometimes you're feeling good. And other times you're feeling down. But I do, I usually for me, I find that like when I'm feeling like in a rut writing wise, that there's there's probably like a lack of like inspiration for lack of better term somehow.

Like it's usually like my brain feels closed instead of open. I don't feel like receptive to ideas and inspiration. So it's you it's a terrible feeling, but I do think it's like a good signal to you to okay, switch me back. Yeah. I can't, don't bang your head a against the ceiling.

For me it's like nice to listen to music or go on a walk or play with my dog. Like sometimes stopping writing is really good for writing. 

Meg: And I found, my son called me the other day working on his school thing and he was like. I just, it doesn't work. And I was lik e, well just write anything.

And he was like, no, you don't understand. I've written a lot. I need to verbally tell you why none of these work. And in verbally telling me why none of them work, his brain went, oh. Well, then that's because this, oh no, because then this would work. Sometimes it's also can be a verbal thing. You need to sit down with your friend over a drink and just bemoan how much it doesn't work.

But get into specifics, right? Yeah, he's not active too late. I'm not meeting the other character too late. Maybe it's because the whole context is slightly off and I just, I love when that happens when you're talking to another writer. I hate being that writer, but I love talking to the other writer.

When they're like oh. Right. Just for the day. So, yeah. So. Great. Okay. So tell us about your week. 

Frida: My week, well, we've been in the room a lot. We're working on season two. So that takes a lot of the day. Well, and exactly to what you're saying. It's a cool experience. It's my.

It's the second season of the only writer's room I've ever been in. So usually like when I used, when I wrote before this, when I was starting off and still I'd also write separately from the room. I've just been like alone with my own ideas and my own thoughts. So, and I like working alone a lot. It gives you a lot of freedom to like, explore your own ideas, obviously.

But being in a room, it's, in the beginning at least, it's just we're just talking for hours and hours and we're just like asking each other questions, like questioning ideas, testing why, if it's strong enough, if it holds up to scrutiny. So we like so much of what you're saying, like the dialogue that it, you can get out.

We do. That is the writer's room for Studio. It's a lot of, it's just, it's a dialogue. It's a conversation. It's, and it's really. And it's really fun. And honestly, I've taken that, I've taken the group dynamics of a writer's room and then tried to bring it to my own individual writing. So I do end up like talking to myself a lot.

I love that. But I'll just start even typing I'll just like not typing. Like scripts or dialogue or character stuff like, just like a stream of consciousness. What if I do this, I feel like it's gonna do this to the character, and if I do this to the character, then it's gonna feel like that.

And even, and I'll reread it and it makes no sense. But the process of having a conversation with myself is incredibly helpful. 

Meg: And do you ever let the characters have a conversation with you, meaning not necessarily having them talk to you, but sometimes I'll just be like, okay, where are you? Okay, you're in a dark hallway.

What is happening? I don't even know if this is gonna be in the script, but you're telling me that I need to go in this dark hallway with you and we're gonna, oh, you're running. Oh, okay. You're running. Oh, somebody's with you. I think that's the fun way to have your brain start to tell you the direction Again, it may not be what's in the script, but the story wants to talk to you too.

Don't you find that the characters in the story wanna talk to you as well? 

Frida: To, yeah, 100%. I actually, I took an acting class like a year or two ago, and I would say that that we, and I just took it because I was like, I should see what it's like to be on the other side see what's happening there.

Meg: Right. Super smart. 

Frida: And it weird this is not what I expected at all. It, I thought it would help my 'cause I like directing too, and I've directed shorts, so I was like, oh, I wanna see what it's like so I can know how to like communicate with actors, but. Conversely, it like actually helped my writing more than anything because the way that I was taught to prepare for roles is to ask the questions you're asking, like within every scene, like you're the character, and then you have to understand every motivation they're feeling the like five senses they're feeling in that room.

And then that like informs and you can, by doing those, by asking yourself those questions as though you are the character, you can also like test whether or not the script is like making sense on it, almost yes. Why are they sitting down? Does it make sense that they're sitting down? Should they be getting up?

How would they be feel? How would she be feeling right now after hearing this news from this person? What's the relationship with the person they're talking to? Have they spoken before? 

Meg: All that, like analysis, I guess even if, even the basics that we forget when we're writing. What does she want in this scene? We know what he wants. We think he's driving, but what does she want? Yeah. And that and how, oh wait, she's a side character. She still wants something because that actor's still gonna need to know. It's their scene too. 

Frida: It's so fun. And like literally he gave us like a worksheet and you like fill it out.

And you fill out like who, what, when, where, why? Like when were they born? What, where were they right before this? Where they going after the stuff like that. And then the actor uses the script to tell them all that stuff. And then if they don't. They have to make it up. So you're, like you really understand how much, like a script is, like a guidebook for everyone you know, and if you can fill out that information, like you don't need to, you don't wanna like overdo it because the actors should still make choices. But even if you have a theory it just feels so. 

Meg: Like a much more complete, like it holds together, right? Yeah. It's like it's solid. And so I can't wait to talk about this, about the show.

I'm so excited. Okay, so let's get to the show because I wanna take everything we're talking about and now talk about the show and how you're using it. So I, we first need to ask how it came about. How did the show come about? We did. We had our first season. So what was its origination? Where did it come from? 

Frida: It was interesting. It was like a, it came from like kind of a lot of different directions. The first, I remember hearing about it, I was Seth's assistant for a couple years and as part of his, as being his assistant, I would go to set with him for like, all the movies he was working on and to like, help him on set. But yeah, while we were on set, we were on set for the Steven Spielberg movie, The Fabelmans, which is, which Seth acted in, which was really fun. But that movie is about movies and it's like such a personal, reflective piece of filmmaking about the process of making films, about the inspiration Steven Spielberg had in relation to movie making.

So that was happening like in the background. And then, Seth and I and Evan, we were all watching The Larry Sanders Show, which is like an in, like a behind the scenes industry TV show. And then honestly, like the industry is always questioning like where it is what, what's happening. Like the strikes were looming at that time.

So the question of like, where do we go? Was on everybody's mind. So anyways, I'm just saying there was like a lot coming at us in different directions and I think we all kind of just picked up on it and wanted to talk about it from our perspectives. And like Seth and Evan obviously have been in the industry for 20 years now.

They've been doing this for so long, they've seen all different iterations of it. And then I, on the other hand, haven't been in the industry for that long and I was always like sharing how I felt about the industry from my perspective. I was like. This is this is, this feels tough. This is a tough place to start, you know, it seems like movies are getting more and more they're harder to make, the budgets are getting bigger.

Like it's hard to squeeze your way in there as someone like under the age of 30 with no experience. So yeah, we were just having a lot of conversations and then one day Seth came to set and he was like, would it be funny if I played the head of a. Head of a movie studio and I was like, oh my God, that's amazing.

That's like the funniest thing I've ever heard. I need to help and I need to be a part of it. And like that day I remember we were just like riffing on set all day and we were like, okay, cool. This could be a funny idea. Yeah. And then from there, Pete and Alex came, became a part of it.

They're the other showrunners. And they wrote on Larry Sanders. They've been in the business for a long time. They're super funny. And yeah, so the team came together that, and then we just started. Having conversation. Then we just started talking for hours and hours. 

Meg: Yes. Talking and talking.

Right back to that talking and is it staying with us? What's staying with us? What did we forget? Well, we forgot. So it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah. And I love the different perspectives of the 20 year veterans and the new and that you both have very legit perspectives coming in and that, 'cause I love that about the show is those two, there's so many different perspectives on different things, but that in particular, I think is really strong.

So one thing. As you're doing all of this talking, and then in terms of actually creating it, writing it specifically, especially for , for our writers. Tone. You know, it's so important for your show. I understand it's a satire of sorts, but the tone is creating such an incredible balance, and it's one of the things I love most about the show and of many things because it has this incredible balance of, it's very authentic.

Feels grounded in something, right? And yet it is satirical and it can go even a little broad, but it never goes too broad. It always stays emotional at its core. How when you were, I guess there's three stages of asking this question. You're conceiving of the idea and having to talk about tone. Are you referencing other shows?

How are you helping people guide what tone this is and then. When you're on the page or in the room, how is that tone developing, solidifying? Did you ever have a moment that you were like, wait a minute, we've totally lost it. So can you just talk a little bit about the tone of the show? 

Frida: Yeah I would give honestly, a lot of credit to the tone.

To Seth and Evan for a bunch of reasons. I mean, first, I mean, so Seth and Evan are like writing every episode, you know, they're in every room with us. Then Seth and Evan are also the directors of every single episode. And then on top of that, Seth is acting in every single scene basically of the show.

So there's a very like strong continuity, voice wise that I think Seth and Evan really. Are the leaders of, and I think it's good that, I don't know, maybe other people would disagree with me. And say the tone is a combination of all five of us, and it is in a way, but I do think in, in a way, yeah, you do need like kind of someone steering the ship tonally because .

If it go, like we again, we all have different voices, honestly, you know, yeah, Pete and Alex and I were like such different people. So we all have like different perspective and voices we bring. But then I think Seth and Evan are the people that are like making sure it fits in a in a voice that feels consistent, that feels familiar.

And I mean, Seth and Evan have been like honing in on their. Like taste and interest and voice for so long that I honestly think it is kind of like a gut instinct that they just, I don't think they're saying like, it has to feel like this or it has to make you like, I don't think it's so controlled.I do think it's like a gut artistic instinct that they just respond to. 

Meg: They can feel it. I love that. And I think it's, I think you're absolutely right. It's why it feels like an auteur show as well. It feels like a visionary, especially for this kind of tone. There has to be a leader and they're setting the tone as directors.

And on the page when you're in the room let's say you've broken a show of an episode and. On the page when you're writing, how, do you ever think about tone? Or is it now just, let's just say in the beginning. 'cause now it's probably so innate in terms of what the show is, but when you were starting the show, when you were on the page, did you guys have discussions about that in terms of That's too broad, how far to go?

I'm thinking about our emerging writers who might wanna write satire. Or might wanna. Find their own tone. Do you have any advice or anything that happened to you that you could think about? 

Frida: Well, Seth and Evan were really hard about realism, which I think like varies from writer to writer. If, like there's versions of satire that are super heightened, they're like, this is like absurdist land.

We're going real wacky. We're like really poking fun in like a. Cartoonish in not a derogatory way, but it could be like bigger and like more heightened. But Seth and Evan really prefer the grounded stuff. So we were, so a lot of the conversations we were having, when characters were behaving was like, have we seen something like this happen before?

Like it couldn't be like. The like and it's, and I think what's good, what I'm proud of with the show is that a lot of industry people are like, whoa, this is a documentary. I know it's so true. Yeah. I know. It feels crazy sometime and like sometimes, and. My, my parents have texted me 'cause they're like not in the industry at all, and they're like, Frida, does this actually happen?

And I'm just like, 100%. It's all happened before. We're not just like creating insane events that we've never heard of before. A lot of it is based on real behavior. So I think the realism was a big part of the tone. So it always felt like very. Just yeah, just never stray from reality too much.

We want, yeah. We want it to feel authentic. 

Meg: I love that. Yeah. 

And it really does, and it, to me, it's like the secret sauce of the show because it does feel real. And having been in the business for 20 years myself, there are moments that I'm like, I haven't experienced that, but I have experienced that. And it does seem absolutely ridiculous.

But there's moments where you're like, this is actually ridiculous. This is really happening and it is happening. And yet. What I love about your show is it's always about the emotional impact of that, right? It's not about finger wagging or judging the, I mean, it can have fun with that, but always it's about the emotional impact to this guy who just wants to make movies and loves movies and to all of them, right?

And so I think really grounds it. We talk in this show about lava, it's, it keeps grounding it back in the humanity, the pain, the joy, the fun, the, oh my God, I just fucked up. Oh my God. So I just, I love that. The casting is so important to that, you know, the realism of Scorsese, Charlize Theron, Ron Howard.

Yeah. I think to me the casting is where it really gets fun in terms of that is Ron Howard, but the, that Ron Howard would let himself be portrayed that way is so fun and funny because that's part of the joke because he's the nicest guy in Hollywood. I just think, and I know where it's a writing show, but I think the casting is so amazing on the show.

Frida: No, and I, and I do think it's hard 'cause so many times when you're writing something you can't control the casting or you don't know what the casting's gonna be. But we had Ike attached very early on. And obviously Seth was the star from day one, so we had two characters that we knew who they would be voiced by.

And it really helps you when you're writing, when you know their sense of humor, know what they can do. And then, I mean, with the cameos, like every time we we would write episodes for specific people and then show it to them and be like. We wrote this for you, this isn't just like somebody we plopped in and the context makes perfect sense.

Like it reflects your career as it is right now. What we think you like the types of movies you make right now. So yeah, like cast, yeah. I mean, yeah. Obviously casting is so important. 

Meg: Well, when you have the luxury of knowing that as you're writing, it's very helpful, but sometimes I literally will be like, this is who I would cast and therefore I'm gonna have that person in my mind - because it just helps me like you said, know what they're really good at, what they're not good at, what they lean into. So I do that. I know other people, writers absolutely don't do that, but I think it's fun and a good way to test run.  

Frida: I do think it's a good shorthand too, if you're short, like sometimes I find like putting the type.

The type of actor you're writing for, just also just clarifies it for someone who's like reading your script for the first time and doesn't know much about it. If you can be like, it's vaguely trying to be like this person, it just might make it land more and not feel like just like you're meeting someone for the first time, you don't know anything about them.

Meg: Yeah, if you said "aka Ike" and then you've named him, we'd be, okay, I got it. The only little tiny caveat to that is if you're submitting the script, and it's a, I'm not saying you're not having Seth Rogen call, but you're a writer submitting a script to, let's say Jodie Foster. You don't put her name in the script.

Frida: No. Take it out before you send it to Jodie. 

Meg: Just take it out before you send it to her. Okay. Is there any kind of overarching thematic for the show? I can, the show's so rich, I can, I understand each episode is having a theme and you're exploring something both in terms of how films are made and relationships and, but is there any kind of overarching thematic, like I see the kind of two, there's that kind of the moral art and versus business and ambition?

Yeah. Or is it about corruption? Like where, what for you guys do you hold in the room as you're writing? Is there any kind of. 

Frida: Yeah I would say that we say that art versus commerce is the big question. That's the question that Matt is always balancing. Like which one's he gonna pick? These things are in conflict with each other.

They don't mix well together. Like in this , in this industry, it sometimes be like, art does not make money and that commerce is not artful. And there are exceptions to every rule, obviously. But you're kind of trying to find the exceptions. In the law that they're, they like don't mix. 

Meg: So that's the world that the characters are in, which I love.

It's so much tension and impossible to solve. Impossible to solve. Exactly. And then, which is always a great thing to have for your story. It's just not possible to solve it. And then, but in terms of the characters themselves, like Seth's character, are there, do you have individual character kind of, contradictions or arcs or things that your work, do you, did you pick each one for each character or, because they all seem very beautifully specific Sal seems to have no illusion about the studio system at all. He's not apologetic. This is the system you're in. Versus Seth's character is no, we can change it. And then Quinn's character kind of starts almost naive and then changes, like she seems to be the fulcrum point, maybe between the two.

Frida: Oh, interesting. 

Meg: Tell me what's happening. 

Frida: I, I would say if on the spectrum, if art is on one side and commerce is on another side. In my head, I think like Matt is right in the middle like right smack dab in the middle. I would say Quinn is a little more naive in thinking that art will triumph and that'll always work.

I think I can, Ike and Maya are, or sorry, Sal and Maya are all, are way commerce side of the spectrum. Then Patty, I'm not sure honestly, where would she be? She's like with Matt a little bit, I think. 

Meg: Yeah, I was gonna say, 

Frida: I think she's moved a little more to the art side just because she has succeeded so much on the commerce side. But I do think they're all like on the spectrum between art and commerce and it's all, and they're all getting hit in the face with whatever version of the spectrum they are, which I love. 

Meg: Nobody is immune. You can go all the way. Commerce size does not matter. You are gonna get hit in the face.

Frida: Exactly. 

Meg: I also love how badly they behave. I think it's part of the delight of the show and. Because I, and again, but the very crucial thing for me in terms of as a creator writer but you still feel for it. You're not judging them because as soon as you judge them, you're gonna be in trouble.

It just feels so human. Their behavior, maybe we hope we wouldn't do that, but I totally get it right, that I would set up the buffet like a 1970s, you know, room not knowing I'm gonna get somebody so stoned. Like I, but I feel for him in that problem. But what I especially love is that you have females behaving badly because I've seen it's very normal to have let the male characters behave badly all they want, but the females become the kind of finger wagger you know, the consolers?

The moral compass. No. And I don't know if you've gotten any blowback about this or not, but I love that even Quinn gets her episode, which is your episode, which we're gonna talk about next, where she does not behave well. 

Frida: No. 

Meg: It's so daring. I just was thrilled by it. Oh, can you talk a little bit about, is this a conscious thing? Is it just an organic, natural thing? Kind of how you see it as a female writer? 

Frida: Yeah, I think, yeah, like Quinn, we had talked about being more on like the art side, I guess. Thinking that art is a bit more important than commerce and I think. I think that position is one that a lot of people like glorify a little bit, and they think oh, if you're like this, almost like a puritanical person who only cares about art, like there's an assumption that is better than being the commerce person.

Because people want to believe that like every film should be like a work of art, which I would love it if every film was a work of art, but also what a work of art is like totally subjective. And that's when it gets so messy. So and again, I've been the person who's I like this super weird art movie.

And then I show it to people to 20 people and then two people like it, you know? And then you're just like, okay, I thought it was artful, but everyone hates it. Which I think is good, but I don't know, it's just I don't know, it's like such a weird thing where I'm like, honestly am I. Am I the virtuous one, or am I just like the most narcissistic, egotistical one that thinks like my strange, very particular vision of what like good art is what everybody should be enjoying when most people I don't know, the biggest movies ever.

I mean, some of them are very artful, but I don't know. A lot of the time they're not. But everybody likes them, you know? 

Meg: And like everybody, they went to have a good time and that's okay too. 

Frida: Yeah, exactly. So, so anyway, so when we were talking about Quinn, she was very artful. So I was like, I don't wanna present that as though that means that she is like perfect, or the moral compass or anything.

I think she's totally as depraved, egotistical, and narcissistic as anybody else, but I don't think that's necessarily. I mean, I like it is a competitive industry. What are you gonna do? 

Meg: She's human. She's human in a competitive industry, and she's gonna make mistakes. I think it's perfect. I loved it so much.

Frida: Thank you so much. 

Meg: Did you get any, did you get any blowback about it at all? I went out because people tend to not like when women characters do this. Yeah. They really don't. So I just would love to do, 

Frida: Oh, a lot of women have been like, yay. Oh my God, I love Quinn. She's just like me. And then. I went on Reddit for five minutes and some of them were mad and I was like, okay. You know, let them be mad. You know. Respect. Respect. 

Meg: You know what? I think it's good. They're mad. Yeah. Because it means you had an effect. You put something out there that impacted them and started a conversation. Yeah. Let's just. Start the conversation. Why is it upsetting to you that females behave badly?

Because we're human beings, right? It's like we hold these female characters to such a higher standard. 

Frida: I think I was also happy to, yeah, get them like, feeling strongly. I was like, good. Like I don't think when you, I mean, sometimes when you watch stuff, it should just be like totally pleasant and you should be like happy when you leave it.

But. Again I think it's more fun to get all riled up and get kind of confused and annoyed and angry, I don't know. 

Meg: And kind of be upset with her. I was a little upset with her. I was like ? I was like wait, Quinn, you're kind of gonna get that assistant in trouble. Oh yeah. And yet I totally understand what's happening and I've odd compassion for her, like she's in a competition.

And I also know because I'm in this industry, that probably happened to her as an assistant. Oh yeah. So once it's happened to you, you're like, this is part of the game. This is part of the testing of can you stay in this business? That when somebody's kind of fucking with you, can you handle it? How do you handle it?

Because if now it's you're on an assistant desk, but soon, someday you're gonna be on set. So to me, there is this whole mindset of. Well, I had to go through it, so, you know, but when you're outside of the industry, I can see some people would be like, oh, she was mean quote, unquote. Oh, she was so mean. You're like no.

She was a person. And she also, I love that she's ambitious. Why can't she be ambitious? Why can't she play the game toe to toe? 

Frida: Yeah. And I also think it came from real inspiration that I've seen. Like you see how. I, yeah. Again, like my vision of Hollywood is honestly, I would say and you can see it between like the way I wrote my episode and like the other episodes that have more celebrities, they have, they're going to swanky spots.

They're like doing the like glam Hollywood thing. As someone who came up as an assistant, like it's not glamorous. There's not like people are cutthroat, everyone is just like pushing as hard as they can to prove themselves in an industry that's like contracting every day. And there was actually a scene that we cut where Quinn talks about.

The industry contracting. But we thought it was just like a little boring. It just felt very too logistical and a little boring. But that's basically like this milieu of things are more precarious. It's like the industry's very feast or famine, and right now it's famine. So she kind, I feel like it's like she's ambitious.

It's almost like survival though, to me. Yes. It's not even, I agree. Even like she wants to beat everybody. To beat everyone. It's she will not get her movies made as long as there's one person in front of her. If that one person just moves out of the way, that she will be able to get the stuff that she wants made and so she's okay, I have no choice, I guess I have to do.

Meg: And he's actively, many times standing in front of you to not do it. Like actually countering you. Absolutely. Very strongly. And yet I also love how naive she is in a way. Totally. Because she's not under. You let her be naive. She doesn't understand that she could learn something from this guy and that there's maybe a different way to play this game because she doesn't know that. 

I also loved in your episode called The War, that we also get a lot of background on Sal and Quinn and you know, in other episodes we're just fully enjoying what's happening in the actual moment, like the single shot episode, which is genius.

But you know that your episode, you really start to get a little more character background. Was that intentional? Did you need it for the show, or is it just something that you as a writer really wanted to dive into? 

Frida: Yeah, I think I wasn't even intentional. I was just like, okay I'm it feels like very me and me as a writer, like who's their family, you know?

Quinn isn't just like I, I always like the idea of Quinn having a boyfriend who she like complained to the second she got home. Inspired by what I do. The second I get home is I just start talking my fiance's ear off. I just thought that like maybe people could relate with that. And also it could also humanize her a little bit.

Like she's in a relationship with someone she lives with. She has a dog. She's just like a human outside of work and who's like sad sometimes and frustrated. And then Sal. Yeah, the I just, I love the idea of seeing who Sal's kids are. 'cause we're always like, Sal's divorced, and I'm like, I wonder what Sal does on the days with his daughters.

And I was like, oh, it'd be so funny if he brought them to Musso and Frank's in the middle of the day for lunch. It just felt like a funny way into his life. 

Meg: Well, it humanized him even more and yet he was still himself. Yes. You know what I mean? Like you're not, again, this is what I was talking about earlier when we were doing our weeks.

Like you can't think of an idea that actually changes the character too much because now you're like, well, I've just totally changed the character. It was so perfect. It was so, 

Frida: Oh, thank you. It was super fun. 

Meg: Okay, so here's a crazy question. There is a rumor that the last, shot of your episode is an inspiration from Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here album. Is that true, Or just pure coincidence? And if you can't answer it, you don't have to. And we don't have to put it in the show. 

Frida: No. Oh my God. I saw it. I saw somebody say that and I was like, oh, I wish I was, that we were that smart. Maybe Seth and Evan, maybe Seth and Evan actually were referencing it directorially and they were like, they have to do it. But no. 

Meg: But it wasn't in the script or anything. 

Frida: No I wish. 

Meg: I know that's what people say. Maybe some, I think people ask me about, you know, in, you know, Pixar, are they all connected? And I'm like, oh my god, I wish we had time to even worry about that. Are you kidding? 

Frida: Yeah. 

Meg: Okay, so I wanna talk a little bit about the relationships in the show because I also think that's what's so, so powerful and why I keep tuning in, other than the fun and the, just to see what next, you know, single shot show, noir show.

Like I love all of that too. Really emotionally I'm staying because I love them together. I love, they're all getting in trouble together, even though they were all doing their own strategy, but suddenly all of them have a problem, including the beautiful, amazing marketing character who's just, I just love her so much.

How do you approach in the room, the season of the relationships? Are you actually saying breaking those relationships or are you just doing the arcs of the single characters and letting the relationships come through the episodes? How do you guys approach the relationships of the show? 'cause they're so, so powerful and great.

Frida: We had the, I would say Matt and Sal were a very, like Matt and his right hand man were like a very beginning, something we thought of like from the very start, right? Again, 'cause we had Ike pretty early on. And then we also always view them as like a little family that's been like the guiding principle with the whole thing.

Meg: I love that. So just hear that writers – sometimes you can just be like, oh, they're a family and they're taking different positions inside the family. It holds it together. Sorry. Keep going. 

Frida: No, exactly. It's like Matt to me is like the golden child. He's been selected. He has his brother Sal. His older sister Maya, who thinks he's an idiot. His like mentor daughter figure in Quinn, like he's guiding her through adult life. And then Patty is kind of like this mother mentor figure to him, taught him everything and now he doesn't, he's like on his own for the first time and he has to figure it out.

And then I guess Griffin would be some like scary patriarchal figure also. Somebody whose opinion he wants to. He wants to gain his approval. I mean, scary stepdad, Jeff just said. Very funny. That's true. Literally this four, you know, like a guy who just got plopped into your family, you've never met him before. You're scared of him.

Meg: And yet he rules your world because he can walk in and kill you or fire you any minute, and yet you also don't respect him and that you do. And yeah, the complication of all those relationships too, right? Like that there, there's no one note, right? Sal is who he is, but he's also a friend who will be loyal when you need him.

Yeah. So he will, he is playing the game at a very high level. But he will, and yet he will take all the limelight unknowingly because that's just who he is. So all of the complexity of the characters then give us these beautiful dovetails and the family. That's amazing. And I just, I of course, now that you say it, I'm like, duh.

Right. Of course. Of course. It's but I hadn't, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have framed it that way. I love it so much. Okay, so I have to ask this question because I know our emerging writers, especially the young 20 year olds who are graduating college, are screaming this at their, at their phones or their, wherever there are listening to this, I have to ask you, you were Seth's assistant you were also incredibly talented and well respected by him, but you got a moment to get in and be Seth's assistant in order to show him your talent and and all you could do as a creative.

Can you just talk about how you got that job? Any advice for kids coming into the industry? Just I gotta ask. 

Frida: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like when I first came out to LA and I'd hear that people were like assisting like a-list, like actors and like directors, and I was just like, I was like, how do you do that?

I I didn't know the first thing about how to do that. It felt super alien and far away. So I honestly didn't even think about that at all. When I came out to LA my college, they told me to to work at a talent agency. They were just like, it's hard, but it's a really good way to just meet people.

And that is kind of what you should do, like your first couple years out. Yes, keep watching movies, keep writing on your own, but just start meeting people, learning about everybody's careers, just like the more. You're in it. So much of the job is meeting people, you know? And not even to get anything out of them, just literally just to know what the, like landscape of the industry is.

So I did that. I worked in the agency and then when I was leaving the agency an opening happened to come up like at the perfect ti- Timing's also every it was like the perfect week. I think they, like even it's I saw an opening for Seth's production company and honestly I'm pretty sure that they had hired my friend, but she took another job, so they had to restart the whole hiring process again.

And I was just like lucky enough to come in at the right, I like, I might have been rejected is what I'm saying, like the week before. 'cause they picked somebody else. That was perfect. But then the timing was just great. So I swooped in and got the job. Great. But then I worked there for two executives of Seth's for two, two or three years.

Again, I didn't even think about being his assistant 'cause I was just like, just, I had a job and I liked my job and I was just like learning about, the industry, but I would always say that I wanted to write and that I wanted to direct. And then after being there for two, three years, like I had gotten to know Seth more and it, and then eventually it just made sense that his assistant was not being his assistant anymore.

And he, there was like an opening, so it kind of just made sense. But again, so it's, yeah, 

Meg: I, what I love about that is it is timing. Right. But it also is being ready and having been prepared. 'cause you have to get yourself in the place, in the right place. Yeah. In order to even know about it. In order to even be considered, in order to even have that friend in order to hear about it, in order.

There's so many other things that you did do to get yourself there. And then it is timing. And I know young people who've gone in, they've taken that job with the showrunner, the show gets canceled, they have to go back to the agency. That's just kind of part of the. That's part of the swirl of, to find the right timing.

To hit the right thing. So I have another question for you and then we have a surprise for you. But I'm gonna ask you one quick question. So you're doing this, you're working at an agency, you're now working in Seth's company to eventually be his assistant to eventually write. While you're doing all the other things, are you writing on your own? And how did you do that? Because I know a lot of young people are afraid to go into an agency because they'll be working so hard, they won't have a, they won't be able to write their own thing. And then when, even if the opportunity comes, you won't be ready 'cause you won't have your samples, you won't have your creativity ready.

How did you keep that going? 

Frida: I mean, when I was in the agency, I did not write at all, honestly. Like it, there wasn't enough time, but I was watching a lot of movies. I was that like the agency was fun because everybody was watching stuff all the time. So that became like the fun game. Everybody's gonna, the movies every weekend, we're all talking about it on Monday.

We're all watching the same tv. Which I know feels like you're slacking, but it's not. I think it's as important to be. 

Meg: Yeah, that's a good point. 

Frida: To be watching. As it is to be generating again, like in terms of like inspiration. Like you need to get material to then put into the work you need to study other works that are doing things better than you to then bring it back 

Meg: Yeah.

Frida: To your writing. So I viewed that as like working, but maybe, but not like pen to paper. But then when I was working as an assistant for at Seth's production company. I would write, I will say it was difficult for me to focus 'cause you need so much time to write, which, you know, like it just does require a lot of time that I found it easier to write.

I would write one weekend, like a short film script that was like less than 10 pages long. And then when I was at work. My whole thing was more like producing to direct it. So, and that stuff happens more via email. You're calling people, you're like finding locations that is like kind of more of an email job that like made sense for writing or I mean, for an assistant.

So honestly I wasn't writing that. 

Meg: Smart. No. Super smart. 

Frida: Yeah. I wasn't writing, I wasn't churning scripts out. Honestly, before this, I really wasn't. 'cause I was just like, I didn't have the time. 

Meg: But you were doing it, you were writing your shorts by the time you found the space. It is hard when you work in an agency, you're just too exhausted. But I love what you said about, but you're doing other things for your creative life and being 

Frida: Yeah, and I do think that watching movies and, oh, also the, oh my God, I didn't even mention it – when I was the, an assistant to the executives at Point Gray Seth's production company, I was reading scripts. All day, every day. Like literally so again, I wasn't writing as much, but we are talking about scripts all the time 'cause they're like, development executives are giving notes to writers. 

I remember once my boss I, what was it – why at one point for some reason I had to go through a script. Point Gray was producing and I literally wrote out what happened in every single scene of the entire script and put it all together. And I, that is like one of the most helpful things I've ever done to understand. Like what a scene does, why a scene is there, what a character's doing.

Meg: Which is self-starting. So even though you have this big job and you're reading all these scripts, you're also still creatively thinking, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write every, what is happening here? What can I learn from this? So if you're taking these jobs out there, young people, you still have to be driving your own train creatively. Be curious, still read all the notes, still write your short at 10 pages. 

Okay, so we have a surprise! 

Evan Goldberg: Hey Frida, it's Evan and I thought it'd be interesting if I asked a question of you during this interview. My question is: why are you considered the contrarian of the writing/producing team?

Frida: Oh, that's a funny question from Evan. I'm gonna text him immediately after this. I think Evan's referring to the fact that in the room I might be known for pushing back on certain ideas, the entire room agrees with, that I might not. And I mean, sometimes I'm definitely poking the bear, definitely trolling a little bit.

Just trying to see the other side for kicks. But I think ultimately I just think that I don't mind when everybody disagrees and I, everybody agrees with something and I have a different viewpoint. And I think a lot of people might be cool to just. Accept the majority opinion, but sometimes I just I don't mind questioning it.

And I think especially in a room when you're with like five or six people writing, it's good to have different viewpoints. It's good to argue, it's good to debate. And I'm fine being the person that brings up a little. A little disagreement, and I think that if everyone was the same, then you wouldn't need all of us in the room.

So I think as a contrarian I hope I add something to the conversation. 

Meg: I love that. It's great for the writing. See the other side. I love it. Okay, let's do the one more. 

Evan: Frida, since you are famously the contrarian of the group, would you share three hot takes on films you do not or that you do like? That most people feel very differently about? 

Frida: Oh, this is funny. I mean, this one isn't even that it's kind of a meme now, but like I think Showgirls is absolutely fantastic of a film. I love it. It's like the most fun. The first time I watched it, I remember being like. Really, I didn't get it. I was like, they thought this was an Oscars movie. Like what? That's crazy. And then I watched it like five years later and I don't know what it was, I was like glued to the screen. It moved so fast. Like I wasn't distracted for one minute. I just absolutely loved the like setting the dancing. I loved it. Showgirls. 

Meg: Okay. I have to be honest, I've never seen Showgirls because I was probably judgy at the time, so now I'm gonna go watch it.

Frida: Yeah. I'm curious. It's super like showy and maximalist and not subtle at all. 

Meg: You're gonna go with it or you're not. Right, exactly. You're either gonna take this fun ride or you're not gonna take it. Yeah. 

Alright, that was super fun. So, we always end each episode asking our guests the same three questions, so we're gonna do that now.

What brings you the most joy when it comes to your writing?

Frida: I think to me, my favorite thing about writing is that. When you write, you have to like, remember things about life and bring it into your writing. So I think like the act of writing is like the act of remembering your experiences and your, the way you've moved around the world. And I, it's just a really, it's really fun to excavate my memories and bring it out onto the page.

Meg: Love that. What pisses you off about writing? 

Frida: That you do a lot of work. And it's like extraction, like oil extraction. Like you ha you get like a hundred pounds of of orange and then you get one drop of like orange oil. 

Meg: So true. And the extraction can be painful.

Okay. And alright. If you were to have a coffee with your younger self, what advice would you give her? So maybe the you that was graduating and should you go work at an agency should around that time, let's say around there, or even younger if you prefer. 

Frida: I would tell her to calm down. I think I was so, I thought that it was like if I made one like wrong move that every, like my whole future would fall apart somehow and.

It like a career is not a straight line and it's also not point A to point B, like you're living a life. Also, you're making life decisions. And honestly a big part reason I wanted to work at Point Gray was because it just seemed like a fun place to work, you know? And that was like a life, it was a career decision, but it was much as much of a life decision as it was a career decision.

I was like, where do I wanna go to work every single day for 12, or, I didn't work 12 hour days, but like for hours and hours so you're living a whole life. You're not just living a career and. Enjoy your life and just stay focused and you'll be able to do both. 

Meg: Frida, thank you so much for being here and sharing your journey.

That was so much fun. I just thoroughly enjoyed it. And congratulations again on the Emmy nom and on creating a show that's both hilarious and deeply meaningful and authentic. 

Frida: Thank you so much, Meg. This was so fun. I haven't talked about this publicly, so it's very, it was really nice to be able to share this with you.

Meg: And to our listeners, you are not alone and keep writing. 

Jeff: And before you make your way out of here, I wanna say thank you to our amazing intern, Alex Farkas, who assembled the rough cut of this episode. Alex, thank you so much. Alex is an emerging editor, and if anyone listening is thinking about hiring him, I'd highly recommend it.