270 | Jenny Han (The Summer I Turned Pretty): Writing Love, Longing & Coming of Age

Jenny Han - creator, showrunner, and bestselling author of THE SUMMER I TURNED PRETTY - joins Lorien to talk about the art of writing love, longing, and growing up.

From balancing fandom expectations to crafting authentic emotion, Jenny shares how she translates deeply personal themes to the screen, keeps romantic tension alive over multiple seasons, and why writing about first love never gets old.

Whether you’re Team Conrad or Team Jeremiah, this one’s for you. 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Lorien: Hey everyone, welcome back to The Screenwriting Life. I'm Lorien McKenna, and today we're joined by the person responsible for one of the most passionate fandom debates in recent memory, team Conrad or team Jeremiah. That's right, we have Jenny Han with us today. 

Jenny is an executive producer, showrunner, and the number one New York Times bestselling author behind the series The Summer I Turned Pretty and To All the Boys I've Loved Before. She's the creator and showrunner of The Summer I Turned Pretty which became the number one show on Prime Video the weekend it premiered, and she returned this summer with a highly anticipated third season where she also made her directorial debut.

Jenny also served as an executive producer on the hit To All the Boys I've Loved Before film trilogy on Netflix and created its spinoff XO Kitty, now in its third season. Through her production banner, ‘Jenny Kissed Me,’ she continues to develop and produce new projects for Amazon Studios. Welcome to the show, Jenny. 

Jenny: Thank you for having me.

Lorien: We can't wait to chat with Jenny, but before we do, let's talk about our weeks, or what we like to call Adventures in Screenwriting. I'll go first. 

So, I just got back from a writer's retreat where I mentor, it's called CineStory, and it's up in Idyllwild and it's four days. And, the amazing thing about it is everyone's, you know, so interested in developing their craft while we're up there, which is great and everyone's really excited, but mostly it's the lack of mental load I have to carry because the schedule is really clear. I know when I'm supposed to eat, I know where I'm supposed to go, I know who I'm supposed to talk to and the panels that I'm on, and it's such a relief because my life in regular circumstances is a lot of trying to figure things out in the mechanics of how to live. 

The other piece that's really amazing, I had this experience this time, is, someone asked me ‘why do I write,’ and ‘what was it that first got me interested,’ and ‘how did I see myself as a writer?’ And I've been asked this question a lot, and I've had all kinds of those answers. Like, ‘I wanna impact the world, I wanna make change, I want people to see their experiences reflected in my stories, or I'm trying to figure out the truth.’

And the real, real, truth is that I'm good at it, and I like being good at things. And I'm still developing my craft, of course, and I'm still trying new genres and new formats, but I am good at it. And I like that feeling, and I, it was sort of an epiphany to me that, I can say that without feeling like someone's gonna come up to me and say, ‘well, you're not good at it,’ or ‘that's not a good enough reason to justify this creative, very risky thing you're involved in.’ But, it is the truth. And that's where I am this week. How was your week? 

Jenny: I forgot that it was Friday. So, how was my week? What did I even do this week? It's weird, every day is busy, but what was I even doing? I could not tell you. I think I went out to a nice dinner with a friend, a writer friend who is a YA novelist who was in town for Comic-Con. Which was nice because I have not really been, very much in the world of YA novels. I was saying to her that my last, I think the last one I wrote came out, or I wrote it in 2016. So, or 2015. So it's been a long time. So it's nice to kind of catch up, and see somebody from that old world.

Lorien: That's so interesting to me that was when you last wrote it, but then you fully got, you know, involved in The Summer I Turned Pretty. Would you consider that a YA story? 

Jenny: Yeah. But yes, and it is, and it's an adaptation of my own, but I haven't written a novel since 2016, which is very different.

Lorien: Oh yes. Why haven't you written a novel since 2016? What's been going on? 

Jenny: I've been show-running. 

Lorien: Yeah, I didn't wanna put words into your mouth. 

Jenny: Yeah. It’s okay. That's, and that's a full-time, more than a full-time job. That's a year round kind of thing. Especially when you're on that ‘flywheel,’ as they call it, you know, of getting a writer's room going in January and then finishing up, like, in May, and then you're in production and then you're in post and then, you know, that's a full year. So I think for me, writing novels is a very different headspace than screenwriting is.

Lorien: Yes. 

Jenny: So I definitely go into what I call more of a trance-like state as I'm writing a novel. You have to go in really deep versus screenwriting where I can take a meeting in the middle of the day or you know.

Lorien: Well, you have to, when you're show running, right? 

Jenny: Yes. 

Lorien: You're like, ‘Hey, what color is this gonna be?’ And, ‘what if we have this costume’ and ‘we lost budget over here, where are we gonna find the money?’ You know, like all those kinds of conversations,.

Jenny: Yeah, those kinds of conversations. But also even just during the writer's room, you're meeting with, you know, your network or your streamer or your studio and all the practical things that come up.  So, you know, I think that novel writing is much more solitary. 

You are alone as you write it, although I do, you're talking about a writer's retreat. I used to do a lot of writer's retreats with friends, which I loved. And I miss it, because it is nice to get away from, even if your everyday life is writing, it's nice to get away from, I think just everyday life, and sink into the book.

Lorien: Yes. So I'm so curious about your transition from novel writing and what that actually looks like, practically speaking, in terms of like, do you do an outline? What is the thing that sparks you to start on that? And then your move into TV, which is where I come from and I'm now going the opposite direction a little bit. Like I'm working on a novel, and trying to figure out how that is different and like what I can bring from my TV screenwriting into that. And you're, you've gone the other way. So I'm so curious about that whole process and that evolution for you.

Jenny: I mean, I think the biggest difference is that as a novelist you are in charge of everything. And you know, if you're coming from TV, then you can think of it as you're the director, the producer, production designer, costume designer, hair and makeup, that's all you, props, casting, and it's, you know, your only limitation is your imagination and that's on the page. 

But then I think as it continues and you hand it into your publisher, you know, you have the relationship with your editor and you'll get an editorial letter from them, but it's really up to you what notes you wanna take and what you think is helpful. And then you leave. 

Lorien: That sounds amazing. 

Jenny: Yeah. It's really different.

Lorien: Yeah. I mean it does, it sounds amazing to me, 'cause it's so the opposite, right? 

Jenny: It's more like feature writing, but you do have to take the notes, and then also when you hand it over as the writer and features, then you know that the director and the producers, they're gonna have their hands on it. So you no longer are the keeper of the story. 

But with books, it's yours from start to finish and it's just your name on it, and that's very different. I think film is so collaborative, which makes it really fun. I would say I really enjoy both. It's been really nice to be collaborative and work with really talented people.

And, but I can say that I also miss novel writing. 

Lorien: Interesting. So, you know, the first adaptation that you were involved in was To All the Boys I've Loved Before. What was it about that experience that you were like, ‘yes, I wanna keep doing this’?

Jenny: I think it really was being able to create a world that was visual as well, and auditory, and it just spoke to me in that sense, as somebody who loves to create spaces, and make them feel very real and lived in. That's what I really loved about that process.

Lorien: So, you wrote these amazing books and you have several series and several standalone, so you already have this big following, and then the TV show and the movies come out. And then social media is such a huge behemoth that you're getting lots of comments, right? Positive and negative, that you're not exactly exposed to when you have a TV show up, or when a novel comes out, not in the same magnitude. Like how are you, how do you process all that? Or do you even look at the comments?

Jenny: You know, I was on social media obviously before the first movie came out, although it wasn't, I think the first movie came out in 2018. I'm not sure when I joined Twitter, but I had been on it for a while. And I would say, yeah, it is different going from having your book reader audience, to then having a movie come out on Netflix that was watched right by millions of people.

I already really had a relationship with my audience in a sense of feeling like I understood what they liked about my stories, and what they were looking for. And I think it's because, you know, as a novelist you are really the salesperson of your books and there is just a much smaller marketing budget in the world of books. So you as the author have to take on a lot of that. 

So I'd been in that conversation and had been managing my own social media presence for a long time before. For me it's been about where are my people, and then you have to go where they are. I find TikTok to be probably the most fun because it feels just like a fun extension of storytelling.

Lorien: What about when people are, like, trying to guess what happens? Like, my daughter freaked out when there was footage of Jeremiah filming in Paris, right? She was like, and I know that was a whatcha call it, bait and switch, right? So you didn't give away the ending, but she was freaking out.

She and all her friends were investigating and trying to predict and it was really fun. Are there any things that people, it's like, ‘well, what if this happens,’ where you're like, ‘oh, that would've been a good idea.’ 

Jenny: No, I think it's more like people have theories about what's happening and you know, what they're looking for in terms of like any, like clues. Though, I don't really approach it that way, personally. I think, you know, there's narrative foreshadowing that you have in stories and then there's, you know, Easter eggs, and I think those are two different things and they can there's a Venn diagram of those two things, but I'm more in the world of wanting to like sort of lay down pipe in the story for things that would pay off at a later point.

Lorien: Yes, agreed. My daughter would freeze frame where there were little Easter eggs, like there's a crossword puzzle with, you know, your name is a clue and she and her, all her friends were so into that, and I loved seeing her so invested. And I asked her and her friends if they had any questions for you. So I would like to ask you a couple of them. 

Jenny: Okay. 

Lorien: So my daughter, Quincy wanted to know if any of the, in any of the books or shows that you've created, are any of them based on real people or experiences that you've had?

Jenny: So I would say that I always infuse my stories, you know, with real life, like emotions. But it's not really like a one-to-one kind of thing. It's more, you know, being able to use moments of struggle, and putting that into stories. But it's not really, like, a literal retelling of anything.

Lorien: So it's that connection you have of going through something, the same emotional experience, but translating it into a character.

Jenny: Yeah and whatever they're going through. So I think that's hopefully what makes it feel real is that you can take real moments in your life, but not the actual moments.

Lorien: We talk about that as ‘lava’ on the podcast, right? You're not literally retelling your biographical story. You're taking all the feelings that you've had, and then walking alongside your character as they experience something similar, but not literally the same thing.

Jenny: Not literally, yeah. 

Lorien: Yeah. And then giving them specific specificity that's different from yours. Like the actual living, breathing character is how you connect with an audience, right? So you're not just like, here's my story, but you're, I mean, I think we're all retelling our same stories all the time, right? You know, it's our voice. You know, our journey as storytellers. Which of your books was the hardest one to crack, like getting into and the writing process?

Jenny: I think for me it's always hard, it doesn't get easier, it's always feels like, you know. I would say that Always and Forever, Lara Jean was really hard to crack because I was writing that in 2016. And I thought that I think it was due, n November, and then I was like, okay. Or no, it was due December. It was due December, or like mid-November. 

And I think that my, like, attention was very split during that time. And so I had to ask for an extension because I thought that things were, would calm down in the world in November, and then it was like, not calm. So, I just remember writing that book and then like, like looking at Twitter and seeing like all the different demonstrations that were happening. And then it was very hard to write at the same time as like all the stuff in the world. So I did get an extension on that, and it came out a little bit later than it was supposed to.

Lorien: So that is a common experience, I think, for all writers, right? Having certain expectations about when they're gonna be done and then having to ask for an extension is really hard. And a lot of our audience is so curious about how that works.

Jenny: It, like I said, it is different than in the film world, I think, because if you're so lucky, you'll have the same editor for years, so you have a real relationship. And I would say there's generally less moving around as well. People will stay put for a bit and I don't think anyone in publishing gets into publishing for the money because it's really like a labor of love. There just isn't a ton in the industry. It's people who really care about books and they just want you know, to write the best book of your heart. 

And that's why I think people tend to have those kind of relationships with their editor because it is personal and intimate and you tend to know each other well. So I think it's okay to have those kind of conversations.

Lorien: Yeah, I totally agree. It's finding people that you trust, which you know is, I keep going back to the same producer, you know, 'cause I trust her and I know that I can speak to her about what's going on in my life. It's kinda like my manager. You know, I can communicate to her in a way and then she can help me figure out how to communicate things and stuff, because it is a really important relationship, you know? And that's sort of the crux of it all. You know, having those people around you that you can trust. 

You know, you've adapted your own work, which I imagine has its own set of challenges. You know, 'cause you're introducing all these new people into it. You're writing the writer, you're running the room, you've got all these new voices, new ideas. Was there something in your experience specifically The Summer I Turned Pretty in any of the seasons where you were like, this is the thing I won't let go of. Right? 

Where you're getting lots of pitches 'cause you know, things changed. You know, they kind of have to, and novels are different than TV and the episodes and the structure of it. Was there something where you're like, this is my silver bullet, this is the thing I'm not willing to change on? 

Jenny: I think there were probably a lot of silver bullets.

Lorien: You're like, I had a whole, what is that thing you wear across your chest with all the like, you know bullets? 

Jenny: Yeah. 

Lorien: You know, like this is all of them.

Jenny: I can't think of one instance, I don't think I can think of an instance, but it's easy enough for me to say it's in the book. So no, then that's important I guess. Like I know what the fans care about, so I know I have to deliver on certain things. Like, in the season, you know, it's why I chose to write the Conrad episode because I knew that they really cared about the peach scene or, you know, certain things. 

Anytime it's a, like a big scene from the book, then it's gonna be me that's writing it. Or, you know, I think different writers tend to gravitate towards different characters too. 

Lorien: You know, this is a romance, it takes place over a span of time, but their growth, the main character's growth, is really the main story. And it, and in the last two episodes where, you know, Conrad and Jeremiah are talking at the graveyard and sort of acknowledging who they are and what they've been through. 

And then especially when. Conrad and Belly are talking about the prom, and how they both sort of made mistakes, because they were so immature and unable to handle what was in front of them. They had so much personal growth and work to do, and I, that for me felt really important that it is, that, you know, our relationships challenge us, but it's also up to us. We are the ones responsible for who we determine we are in the world. 

And that's the true coming of age piece of it that I really responded to. And it isn't just like you're better because of who you fall in love with. It's that your experience of growing up and becoming responsible for who you are actually determines your future and your growth. And I thought that was really powerful and elegantly done.

Jenny: Oh, thank you. I mean, that was one of the challenges I think of the season is wanting to give enough space to where they could grow. And then once I think they had a better idea of who they were and what kind of people they wanted to be, then it's easier to see, you know, who you love and if that feels true to you.

And that's what I wanted for Belly, was for her to be able to sort of listen to her own, that voice in her head, and be able to stand on her own two feet and really have to test her metal. I, because I know that fans were upset, you know, to have her be in Paris or to be like not in contact with Conrad and to be going on this, having this romance with Benito and starting this new life.

But I think always, from the very beginning, you know, her mother had even said like, I want her to have a lot of like lovers before she settles down. And I think it is important to see something, to see an existence outside of the summer house, which is where she feels really safe. And, you know, since she was a child, she went there every summer, didn't really go anywhere else. Didn't wanna go anywhere else. You know, so it was important for her to at least see what else was out there before you say, this is what I want.

Lorien: Yeah, I thought the relationship with Benito was really great and well done, right.And then, you know, ‘she broke up with me six weeks ago,’ right, so, you know, it's not actually happening when Conrad gets there, so it's not that same dynamic right of like, the overlap. But I thought it was great because it does speak to the young 20 something experience, I think like, live.

Jenny: It's down to the person. But in this case, for this person, I think she needed to.

Lorien: Yeah. Okay. So some of the characters I loved were the roommates in Paris. I had so much fun watching them and how distinctly quirky they are. I think

Jenny: There's something to be said for going somewhere where nobody knows you and there are no preconceived notions about like, same old Belly, or who you've always been. So, you can really just be whoever you wanna be. But then I think the real you is gonna shine through no matter what. And I loved working with our French cast. They were all wonderful. Her roommates were wonderful. So much fun. We ended up giving them more because they were so wonderful.

Lorien: They were so good. 

Jenny: Yeah, and it was really nice to go back to Paris for the finale and have that big experience altogether in this amazing city, and to see everybody again and really get to celebrate together.

Lorien: You were in Paris; what was the best thing you ate while you were there?

Jenny: I had this like sweet and sour thing at this Chinese restaurant that was amazing. 

Lorien: Awesome. 

Jenny: I also had really good dumplings at another Chinese restaurant. After like, a little bit away from home and eating other foods all the time, I definitely need to have Asian food. So I was in, after like two weeks, I was, because I had been in France for like a week before the finale.

Lorien: Right.

Jenny: And I'd say there like a little bit longer, but I was definitely, like, homesick for some Asian food. So I had quite a bit of that towards the end.

Lorien: So you were also, you also directed. Just the one in season three, right?

Jenny: Yeah, it was hard, because if I'm directing more than one, then it's more time away from set, because I'm prepping for the episode. And so, I don't like to be away from set, at all. And, with this though, we kind of were able to organize it so that for the really big important scenes that I was still there for that. And then like on the less important scenes I could be scouting or elsewhere. 

Lorien: Yeah, it's like two totally different jobs. It's so many jobs writing, show, running, directing, like–

Jenny: –Yeah–

Lorien: –Being the protector of the heart of the story. It's a lot. 

Jenny: It is a lot. 

Lorien: But your transition was–

Jenny: –for The Summer I Turned Pretty, I wrote the pilot and you know, co-show-ran that from the very beginning, but I had no, no TV experience going into it. I'd only been a producer on the films. 

Lorien: How was that? 

Jenny: It was great, honestly, I think the films were really good. I think the films were really good practice, in a way. But, then, I think the biggest difference with show running is, you know, writers are in charge of TV and then directors are in charge of film.

Lorien: Yeah. 

Jenny: And so then you really are the keeper of the information and everyone comes to you asking you questions. And that, that felt really easy to me because I'm very decisive. So that was no problem. And I think it was just kind of learning the ropes. 

And I had a really, I've had really great partners throughout. I had a co-show-runner on season one and a different one on season two and three. And that's, I think I really like working with a partner. 

Lorien: Yeah. 

Jenny: Because then you can split up the work. 

Lorien: Yes. 

Jenny: So I'm able to be on set and she's able to go and scout with the director or, you know, vice versa.

Lorien: What was the most surprising thing for you that you learned in, you know, becoming a TV showrunner, and being in that new space and how people reacted to the work, and the, was there anything surprising about that for you?

Jenny: What was surprising to me was, you know, how much people people didn't mind that I'm particular or picky. They actually were okay with it because they liked that I had opinions on things and knew what I was looking for, and so they were really fine with it, you know. 

Lorien: Well, it's the best 'cause then I know what the assignment is, right? If you're telling me, yeah this, and this, then I'm like, great, ‘I know how to do well at this.’ Right? And then if it's not quite it, you give me notes and I turn it around, right, then I know that whoever is receiving my work is very clear about what they're looking for. It's very comforting, you know?

Jenny: Glad to hear that. Yeah. 

Lorien: Well, no, I think it is, and I think it's probably how you manage that is probably, you know, what you were really good at, right? Like being able to be very specific about what you wanted, what you were looking for, and then if people responded to that well, then you delivered that well.

Jenny: Well, yeah, I mean, I appreciate it. I think that so I'm like, oh, ‘you know what? This is not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for this.’ And then it was a quick yes or no, you know. And people really seemed to be fine with that. And they liked that quick decision making.

Lorien: Oh yeah, 'cause TV goes so fast. Even when you have all the time to write all the episodes before you go to set, it's still like you gotta keep going. Like you, there's a schedule all the time.

Jenny: And that's why again it was so great having Sarah Kucserka, who's my co-ho runner as a partner, because then if we have to rewrite a scene or something, she or I can do that, and then the other person is doing something else and you are never stopping.

Lorien: Right. 

Jenny: I guess the other, maybe I would say one other, I don't know if it's surprising or not, but one other element that people don't really take into account as much going into it is how much it really is about being sort of a manager of a company. 'Cause you have so many people looking to you and so many things come up on an HR level or, you know, whatever it is. There's things that come up all the time that you have to work out these problems, you know? 

And yeah, like if somebody is sick or somebody missed their flight ,or whatever, and then you have to film the next morning, you've gotta be able to pivot and be on your feet and have a lot of conversations with people that, for me as a novelist, I wasn't really having to necessarily have. 

Lorien: Right. The characters are already written. I think it's fun though, and that's not fun. It's terrible. But there is a creative process where you're sort of forced to come up with a solution that sometimes can be better in the end. Did you ever have that happen?

Jenny: Yeah, you know what, we did. We actually had, in season three, the guy who steals Belly's bag, he was cast in something else and he said, ‘I'd rather do this.’ So, then he just, we were like and he was in a different country too, so it was, and we had to film it that week because it was a huge set piece at the club. So, we were really left, you know, struggling to figure out how we were gonna replace him.

And then I think it was my, assistant Josephine, she said to me, ‘well, I know this guy, he is a, he's of a friend who's like trying to act,’ and I'm like, ‘get him the tape.’ I was looking everywhere, I mean, we might have even been the day before. It was, we were really–

Lorien: –Wow–

Jenny: –Like, yeah. So, he did and I was like, it looks great. Like, he seems great. And then he came and he really killed it. And it ended up being like this moment that people really got a kick out of. So I feel like that was a lucky serendipitous thing that happened for us.

Lorien: Yeah. That I love, I love things like that. I mean, it creates a lot of stress in the moment, right?

Jenny: Oh yeah, it was stressful. I was looking at, like, you know, our boom operator. I'm looking at everyone. I'm going, ‘can you dance? Can you?

Lorien: You're like, we just need somebody, right? 

Jenny: Yeah. In season one, Lola broke her foot in the scene in the opening of the pilot where she's running around the kitchen trying to catch this muffin. She broke her foot and that happened sort of like at, towards the end of the first block. And then that was a huge challenge, 'cause then she was in a cast for all of block two, and most of block three, and this is a show where we have volleyball and swimming and waltzing and all kinds of things where you need to be able to use your foot. But that ended up being okay. I mean, we worked it out.

Lorien: That, for me, is one of the primary differences between, you know, writing, and then actually making something. You know, that there is it's those things. 

Did you ever have an experience where you'd, I mean, this happens all the time. You've written something in the script and then you get to set and you're like, ‘oh, we don't need that, it's a double beat.’ Or, are the scripts so locked down that you felt everything was–

Jenny: –I don't know about, ‘oh, we don't need that.’ But there was a scene in my episode in the kitchen when Belly and Conrad are having dinner, and then Jeremiah comes home, where I was watching it play out and I thought, this isn't, this is giving me like the opposite feeling that I want to have– 

Lorien: –the ick, were you getting the ick?

Jenny: It wasn't really the ick, it was just more like, it's not working how I was envisioning it.

Lorien: Yeah.

Jenny: So then I kind of reworked it, like, on the spot and then it, like, ended up being exactly how I was picturing it. But, I think that's obviously one of the reasons why you need to have writers. Because, sometimes you see it happening and you're going, this isn't, this just isn't what I pictured. 

Lorien: Yes. 

Jenny: It's not working. And so you need to be able to be on the fly and rewrite something.

Lorien: Is there anything if, when you decide to go back to writing a novel, that you will take with you when you're writing narrative?

Jenny: I think it's too soon to say, 'cause I haven't been able to really sit down and go into that sort of headspace. Yeah. But I guess we'll see. 

Lorien: That part was frustrating for me too, like. Running, doing the show and then coming out of it and realizing I didn't have the next thing already ready to go. You know, normally you're working on multiple projects, you've got stuff in your slate, but it's so all consuming and it felt a little like, I felt a little sort of lost, you know, after that. Like, okay, 'cause I didn't get, I had no time to sit and, you know, develop little things on the side. I mean, I know you have lots of things going on, so you might not feel that, but it was, it's sort of the opposite of how I am when I'm in development on my own, working on lots of different things.

Jenny: That was one thing I would say was surprising to me about the screenwriting world is how much work people do that never sees the light of day where people are always developing and helping to sell something and then, you know, when you write a book, it's probably. Like, especially if you sold it, it's gonna come out. ‘Cause there's such a lower threshold because again the money is much smaller so the stakes are much smaller. You know, we're not talking about millions and millions of dollars here. It was surprising how much, you know, people put in their like heart and souls into stories and then maybe no one ever gets to–

Lorien: What is it about YA, young love that interests you? But you've written adult stories too, right? And you could argue that Belly and Conrad are adults. 

Jenny: I mean, Belly and Conrad are, yeah. You know, belly's 22, Conrad’s 24. 

Lorien: Yeah, they're adults. 

Jenny: They're young adults, but they're not teens anymore by the end of the show. And then, you know, you also have the two women's stories as well, with Laurel and Susannah. So I would say, I started writing YA when I was in college, so I wasn't, I was only like two years from being a teenager myself.

Lorien: Wait, when you were in college, you started writing? 

Jenny: Yeah. 

Lorien: What did you write? What was the first thing you wrote?

Jenny: My first book, Shug, which is, was the first book that I published. I started in college. 

Lorien: Wow. 

Jenny: And so I was just out of being a teenager myself when I started writing and, that's really why I don't think, I could imagine, it would be harder to write a story from, like, a 70-year-old woman's perspective than it was from a teenager's.

And I also just think that there's something really powerful and poignant about stories from that time of life where you're experiencing things for the first time. You know, where it's all brand new. I find that to be very compelling. I think that even just in life, I remember and most people remember what their favorite book was as a kid, but I really could not tell you when I was like, what did I read last year? I'm gonna really have to sit there and think about it. You know?

It kind of all gets a bit jumbled up. And that's how it is. You know, people remember their first love, but I don't know that I remember like every guy I ever dated. Not really. Not like that. 

Lorien: Just the horror stories. Just the ones where you're like, yeah, the ones you told your friends after and that stick with you.

Jenny: But you know, I think what really sticks with you is the first time that you feel those feelings. And so I think that's why just from a narrative viewpoint, first times are very compelling.

Lorien: What was that book? Your favorite book when you were a kid? 

Jenny: I had so many I loved Just as Long as We're Together by Judy Bloom. I loved Lois Lowry and Barthe DeClements and The Babysitter Club, and I read a lot of Stephen King.

Lorien: Same. I read Sybil, which is not Stephen King, but when I was 10.And that sort of shaped a lot of my life.

Jenny: That's like the multiple personalities, right?

Lorien: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It, I went dark. I bought it at my junior high library for 25 cents, and then I read it and I was like ‘cool, cool. I'm okay. Everything's fine.’ All right, so, we have a couple questions we ask all our guests. What do you love about writing?

Jenny: I love to connect with the audience. 

Lorien: Awesome. What pisses you off about writing?

Jenny: I think every time I sit down to write in some way’s it feels like the first time, so I don't know if it pisses me off, but it definitely frustrating. 

Lorien: If you could have coffee with your younger self, what advice would you give her?

Jenny: I would tell her that it's okay that you're not good at math, and then you won't really need it.

Lorien: That is exactly what my younger self needs to hear. What advice do you have for teens who want to be writers?

Jenny: I would say the advice that everyone says, which is read a lot and find your voice because that's, you know, there's no real truly original story idea, but it's what is different is your point of view in the way that you see the world. So the voice is the most important part.

Lorien: Beautiful. I think that's a great way to end. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thanks so much to Jenny for joining our show today. All three seasons of The Summer I Turned Pretty are now streaming on Amazon Prime.

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Thank you for listening, and as always, you are not alone and keep writing.