Indie Film Craft 5 | How a Celebrity-Free Microbudget Feature Premiered at SXSW (ft. GG Hawkins)
What does it take to make a celebrity-free, micro-budget feature and premiere at one of the most competitive festivals in the world?
Filmmaker and No Film School podcast host GG Hawkins joins Jeff to share how she turned a family house in Panama, a tiny team, and a three-month timeline into I REALLY LOVE MY HUSBAND, a breakout SXSW premiere with no celebrity attachments.
They break down every stage of the journey:
Writing a script around what you already have
Casting for chemistry
Financing in waves while production is underway
Festival strategy and PR on a shoestring
Why specificity and “weirdness” can be your biggest assets
Whether you’re a filmmaker planning your first feature, or just curious how indie films actually get made, this episode pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to crack SXSW.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Jeff: It is always nerve wracking when a friend or someone you admire sends you their work. You go in wanting to like it, but you also wanna give honest feedback after you watch it. And fortunately, not only did I like my friend GG Hawkins independent feature debut, I really loved my husband, I really loved it.
I can say without hesitation that it's one of my top 10 movies from 2024, and I'm so excited to have her on the show today. There's a good chance a lot of you already know GG. She's the host of the No Film School podcast, which I consider an essential companion to TSL. She even had me on when my feature Always Lola premiered a couple years ago.
So it's a real treat to have her on today, but it's not just a favor. I'm actually really excited to talk about her new movie because she pulled off something rare in today's indie film market. Her debut premiered at South by Southwest, a top tier film festival with an actual sales market, and it did so without any A-list names.
More and more, it feels almost impossible to debut at top tier festivals without some kind of celebrity attachment, but GG's movie proves that it is possible, and it's exactly the kind of story so many of you have been asking about that you want to hear about on the show. So I'm also really excited to have her on. I feel like her movie's a case study as to how this can happen and still happens, and her movie’s in theaters now.
Because of that, we're splitting today's conversation into two halves. First, the hard production realities of how GG made her low five figure film in Panama, that looks like a million bucks. And then part two is a spoiler deep dive into story and character because that's ultimately what makes the movie great.
So let's get into it. GG, how are you?
GG: I am very relaxed right now because I just got back from my honeymoon yesterday. I'm still on my honeymoon. I'm just back in LA in my apartment.
Jeff: I'm glad to hear it. I was laughing a little bit, for any of you who are listening who have seen the movie, we'll get into the details, but it's sort of like the most nightmarish version of how a honeymoon could go, so.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: How has that been psychologically like promoting a movie about the challenges of marriage, particularly a honeymoon, while enjoying your own?
GG: It's been a little meta. You know, I wrote it, it's about a marriage falling apart and I wasn't even engaged at the time that I was shooting the movie.
I was living with my longtime partner who I am now married to. But I do think that, you know, I had been in relationships in the past, my parents are divorced, I had seen marriages and long-term relationships fall apart because you know. You're kind of, or, and I've also been in those relationships where you're like, well, I guess I'll settle and this is it.
And cool I guess? I never felt that with, you know, the relationship that I'm in. So I felt very like, psychologically safe from my position, but the you know, it's fun to look back and dig into sort of the darkness of the past. And one of my closest collaborators, Madison Lanci, who plays Theresa, who also has story by credit, was also with me on a journey where we were, you know, turning the mirror on our pasts and sort of picking apart our past relationships to create this film.
So, yeah.
Jeff: I can't wait. I mean, that is a beautiful answer. And it's funny, I'm like towing the line between wanting to ask all like the story character questions right now, but I am gonna save it for the second half. But, just to give our audience a bit of context for what we're talking about, GG's debut, if you haven't seen it yet, it's called I Really Love My Husband and I would kind of describe it as like a sort of like feminist take on a White Lotus vibe where we're following a couple who is celebrating their honeymoon a year after their marriage.
And this sort of third rail is suddenly introduced while they're on vacation in Panama. And it's a, they're non-binary Airbnb hosts that they both find themselves attracted to. And it kind of becomes this like both funny and sort of like cringingly observant look at how a third rail can expose the vulnerabilities and weaknesses in our own relationship.
How did I do? Was that okay?
GG: I love it. I think that's such a great analysis of it and, you know, I really do love The White Lotus in general, and I think when that show came out, I felt validated in creating stories about, you know, my weird and being okay with indulging that. And then when season one ended, I was so, you know, feeling a void in my heart that I started watching Survivor Mike White season to sort of really just absorb as much as I could.
And ironically, I think that watching him play Survivor was really helpful in understanding how to direct. I think he is a very strategic, smart player, but somebody who also brings humanity to the experience. And yeah. So anyway, that's a little tangent to say. I think you did a great job and I really am into stories that let us pull back the layers and look at our sort of ugly darkness, but doing so in a way that's like entertaining and then sometimes kind of sneaks up on you.
Jeff: Yeah, there is, it's funny, I'm like always going to writing and story and we will talk about production.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: But I'll just ask a couple more questions generally, because this is an interesting thread. There is like a levity about your movie, even though like the characters and event, like the eventual route they take, get kind of gnarly. And that's what I enjoy about it is it's like, on one hand we're sort of seeing the disillusion, like the crumbling of a marriage, but like it's happening in paradise and with a lot of humor.
Was that always important to you?
GG: Well, yes. I think I just like to write to my weird and react to my weird, and I knew from the very, very beginning, you know, I, this movie came together in a very unconventional way. I took this micro budget producing course via the Gotham, and one of the things that they sort of were pushing was write a movie that, you know, you can make.
So what's something that you already have and how can you reverse engineer your way into it? That, and there were two things that I had. One is this access to this location in Panama. My stepdad built that house. He lived in Panama for 16 years. My brother was born there. I've been going there my whole life.
And we have like a huge community on these little islands called Boca del Toro. And I was like, well, that's unique. It's not something you see every day in the movies. And that year my stepdad, after trying to sell the house for, you know, over a decade was finally selling the house.
And I was like “I guess I have to do this now”. And I pulled, I sat him and my mom down and I was like, “So could I shoot something there?” And once they were on board, I called up this team of people who I had made a couple of sketches and shorts with, including Madison Lanesey, who I mentioned before, who plays Theresa, the lead.
Ryan Thomas, who is a cinematographer, Christina O'Sullivan, an editor, and Scott Monaghan, who was also in this short Yes Daddy that I made with Madison and Ryan and Christina. And when that group came together, really good things were happening. I was like, this is working. So I called them up, got them on board with, I basically pitched them “Would you, do you wanna make a movie in Panama? I don't have a script, but like, would you be down?” and everyone said yes. On the call for the most part.
Jeff: Before you keep going, can I rewind just a little bit? Can you do like a time, like dates a little bit? Because it's like this is so unconventional and I wanted to talk about it with you 'cause I'm like, it's weird that something so compressed would result in something so good. Like it doesn't, it's why you're an interesting, I guess, use case for our audience.
So like, yes, keep talking, but like with like dates.
GG: I remember the dates very specifically because it was, late April or early May, my brother Orian, who was born in Panama, was graduating from high school and I was at my parents' house and called everyone up before we headed off to his graduation ceremony.
And I actually
Jeff: This was in Panama?
GG: Oh no. He actually, they moved to California for, you know, elementary school and beyond, but he did go to preschool and in Panama and is this like, you know, lanky white kid who has Panamanian citizenship. And so that was May and I knew we needed to shoot the movie before the end of the year because they were selling the house and before the rainy season, which is end of October.
So there was this sort of sweet spot September, October. And at the time when I was pitching, I was like, this is gonna be a sort of mumble core thing with six people making a movie.
And then it ended up growing into something a lot bigger than that. You know, the producer, El Roth Burnett, kudos to her for signing on so early in this nebulous time. But yeah, so that was the timeline for writing the movie and getting to set, which is bananas. But there are a couple of factors that helped sort of create this pressure cooker that I think yielded something really powerful.
And by the way I have a video that I made that sort of breaks down this, it's a 20, 25 minute video that breaks down every single step of this. If you wanna go into more detail, it's called how I
Jeff: I’ll link it in the description.
GG: It's like how I wrote a movie to shoot in three months. And first and foremost, I think for any micro budget filmmaker or any indie filmmaker. Having a start date, having a flag planted in the ground and knowing that you're going towards something, it really lights a fire under your ass in a way that's very, I, that works really well for me.
Like I am really good with deadlines. I thrive that way. And the other thing that was really helpful was I was writing for actors that I knew would be playing these roles, Madison Lanesey and Scott Monaghan and who both have story by credit because I would write, you know, outlines then versions of the script and then scenes you can even hear in the video.
Some of the milestone moments, including the first table read, which was like a super low moment for me. I was like, “this is not the movie I wanna make.” Like “what the hell have I done?” But I would write these scenes and then bring Scott and Madison in to do these improv rehearsals. So we'd read the scene, and then we would, I would say, “okay, now forget the scene. Now just do the lines as yourself.” And then I'd sometimes even like direct in the moment or have them like, “okay, now say this line, then this line, and then go from there.” And they're both very talented, you know, improvisers. And from that there came these like really specific gems that were funny to me.
So for example, and actually I think this is in the video as well, but there's this moment where Theresa is upset at her husband about something that he did, but it's not really something she can get upset about, so she's annoyed at herself for being upset. And she walks into the ocean and she faces away and looks out on the ocean and he comes up to her and he's like, are you mad at me?
And she's like, “I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I'm relaxing. We're gonna be on vacation for. You know, a week over a week, like I'm allowed to do something other than be happy. In fact, right now I'm relaxing.” And there was something about the turn of phrase when Madison was improvising it, that was so specific and so specific to Madison that just delighted me.
And so like, I would record those improv sessions and then reincorporate it into the script. So writing for their, you know, strengths and their specifics was one of the greatest joys, but to your original question, which is like, you know, finding the humor in it. A lot of it was just me finding what I thought was funny and being like “he he ha ha ha” like, I think Nanas are funny.
And whenever an adult calls somebody a Nana, like that is funny to me. So like, there's this through line of, you know, how they met on Craigslist and he was selling
Jeff: Japanese minimalism.
GG: Exactly. And like, and so just following these threads of things that I find funny, whether it's things that, you know, how Madison's turn of phrase that I think is hilarious or, you know, there's this monologue about how she's reclaiming her Mondays.
She's taken back Mondays because by making coffee at home and skipping the blue brottle and brewing at home. And then that devolves into this monologue about feeling connected to herself that honestly I ripped from a nineties clip of Gwyneth Paltrow talking about yoga, and I reappropriated it into somebody talking about how making coffee for herself lets her be balanced.
And it's just ridiculous. But I found it funny. So, yeah.
Jeff: It feels true though. Like, I think everything, one thing I wanna like zero in on is it gets said a lot, but there's a reason, which is that like, the more specific you get, like the more universal something feels. And I've been trying to figure out like why that is as I've been writing more and watching really specific things like what you've made.
And I think it's because it's a vulnerable act actually to like, like you said, like let your weird in. Because it's like a little scary to show people those specifics because you don't know if other people feel that way or think that way. But I think like, what I'm finding is like the secret is actually like whether or not they feel exactly that way.
You are opening yourself up, which like will immediately disarm your audience.
GG: Yes. Yes. And I think now more than ever, being able to find your voice and find your weird and find those specificities is what will make your work stand out. We're in this industry in this time where there's a lot of people just placing safe bets and I don't think that is something we can afford to do as micro budget filmmakers.
Like we're never gonna have the resources to make a film look or feel like a studio film. But if we can one cast well because that is, you know, most of the work is making sure that you have people that you wanna spend time with. And then two, create compelling characters that are specific and true to your voice that only you can understand as a filmmaker.
And then like, clarify that, and then also find that little wiggle room. Or actually, I'd say it's like a big level of wiggle room, which is inviting the people that you're building and creating this thing with to bring their perspective. And then, you know, it becomes greater than the sum of its parts.
Is that the first?
Jeff: Yea.
GG: That's where I think the magic happens. And it's this interesting requirement as a filmmaker to be holding on. And also letting things unfold. Organically. And I know it's something that I wouldn't have been able to do in my twenties. Like it takes a lot of trust.
Jeff: I can't wait to talk about that. It is like such a, like, you need to be so protective and also so open and it's not like either or. It's like both and at all times.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: I want to reflect on a point you just said, which was that like, you know, microbudget filmmakers can't afford to sort of go for that, like, generically broad appeal that studio movies sometimes go for, but I'm finding like this year even studio movies can't really afford that either.
Like
GG: Yes
Jeff: I'm thinking about like, the big expensive movies that I feel like are really cutting through are like sinners and weapons. I don't know if you've seen either.
GG: I just watched both. I just watched weapons at my hometown theater, the Grand Lake Theater.
Jeff: What did you think of it?
GG: I had a lot of fun sitting there. I had these moments where I was like. Leaning in and the ending for me was incredibly cathartic. Like to me it's a story about mass shootings in schools and to see what happens at the end, I was like, oh, yes, some like retribution for this community. And then of course it has a different, and it's not a completely up-ending and it forced me to like, sort of reflect in a way.
But it made me excited for one, this sort of like unconventional storytelling that let me explore these different perspectives. And two, have this moment of release, which is so why we go to film or go to the movies or see movies is because we want to feel that release and that catharsis.
And it's interesting because while my movie is very specific and has a very specific lead character who, you know, arguably is difficult for some people to deal with, so many people come up to me after and say like, “ugh, I feel so seen. I feel I've been Theresa, I've been Drew, I've been Paz.”
Like, I've actually, a lot of people will be like, “I was a Drew in this relationship and now I'm a Theresa in this relationship.” And like two people, two guys have come up to me. They're like, “I am Drew.” Literally two weeks ago. I know. Like clutching my arms and I'm like, you will be okay.
Jeff: I like want to commend you on that because again, it's like you don't need to like go to Panama and like attempt a threesome with a non-binary Airbnb host to feel the specificities of your own relationship.
And it's pretty brave, I think, the way you're sort of putting some of these difficulties out on the table. But I would say there's probably no one who's been married for a while that like won't see elements of their relationship in this movie. And I thought you were like pretty fair with all the characters too.
I actually wanted to ask you about this because. Like, I hate the conversation around likability, like I think it's kind of tired, but I do think we need to be creating characters who are like interesting or fascinating, even if they're not likable. Is that something you're like thinking about while you're writing?
Because I will agree with you that Theresa's a tough character, but part of it is, I think, is it Madison? Is that her name?
GG: Mhm.
Jeff: Her performance is so good that like she does a lot of heavy lifting, I think in terms of you, you getting on board with her, but I'm curious, like how are you thinking about that question while you're writing?
GG: Yeah. It's interesting because I, you know, was writing Theresa for Madison, knowing how talented she is and, you know, I think she's like one of the funniest people I've ever met and seen perform.
And just a side note, I met her through a friend on a phone call. I cast her as the smallest role in a channel 101 episode of a show that was already existing, and I'm bringing this up because I know the pinball guys were channel 101 guys too, and she was, she just killed that role. And as I was editing it, I was just laughing so hard. So then my writing partner on that project and I were like, we have to write an episode for her.
And then we created this character out of like a nothing character and then, you know, that was the beginning of our creative partnership. So when writing Teresa in particular, it was like actually I was able to explore within a framework because I knew what she could do and I knew that she could do that heavy lifting.
But you know, the character of Paz who plays the vacation rental host who is in part inspired by my stepdad, Peter, who lived on this island in Panama for 16 years, he never graduated the equivalent of British high school. He just started traveling the world. He worked in RV parks, fixing up RVs and would then go travel and has lived all over and actually is, once again, my parents are leaving the US and moving to Portugal.
So, they are living this life that is free in a lot of ways, but has other sacrifices. That's the inspiration for this character of Paz. And you know, when I wrote the character, I actually like wrote with open gender. Like I was like, I don't know who Paw is yet. Paz could be a woman, Paz could be a man, paw could be somebody else.
And I just kept it open for the right person because it was all about chemistry, which I think is more of a character. It's interesting because like in this I wasn't like, Paz has to be non-binary. Like we cast it openly. And it was about who is the person that would have the most chemistry with Theresa and Drew.
And we actually brought on a casting director, Alabama Blonde, to help us find the best person who would be correct for this. And Alabama was like, “well there's this model who wants to act who everyone who knows them like loves them, falls in love with them. They're just so wonderful.”
And so when I saw Arta G's audition tape, I was like, “wow, this is awesome.” And Arta was like, “wow, this is awesome. This is a character who I see myself in.” because most roles that are out there are to quote Arta mom with hair or man with beard and art doesn't fall into either one of those buckets.
And and so what was cool about Paz is like I think the character came from, you know, what does the story need? Somebody who can be this sort of, like somebody who realistically could be an expat living on this island who has chemistry with everyone they meet. But I think doesn't fall into this like manic pixie dream person bucket because the story unfolds and you actually learn more about who they are.
And I don't wanna spoil it, but I do feel like it's interesting to see like, people be like, oh, this is really interesting and refreshing, that like all of these characters are flawed and they're all real and grounded. And I think that was like a.
Really fun to like sink my teeth into, especially working with the actors.
Jeff: I do find that you were pretty unsparing with every character's flaws and like in almost every other version of this movie, like Paz would've been this like magical fairy queer person to like serve as a tool for the relationship that we care about, which is with Theresa and Drew.
But let's talk more about production.
GG: Okay.
Jeff: I think like what I want to try to, it's hard, we could talk for hours about how the movie got produced in that three month crucible that you gave yourself to make the movie happen. But I think instead, like if you were to give two ways that creating that really tight timeline helped you, and two ways that it seemed particularly challenging. I think that would be like an interesting way for our audience to assess their own production timeline.
GG: Yeah. Well, I just. So one of the challenges was we were moving so quickly, we were raising money and I was writing the script and doing a ton of stuff, and I decided that I was gonna take money outta my 401k and put it into the movie and try to raise more money afterwards, which is a calculated risk.
But I, you know, am somebody who came to this career in my late twenties is when I first directed my very first short, I had a different career. I worked in ad sales and I knew that there was something missing. So I was maybe five years into pursuing this actively and I knew I needed to take a big swing.
And the way that I rationalized you know, taking money out of your 401k, which you're never supposed to do when you pay a big tax on it is that this is my film school and I'm going to learn so much and I could put this money into film school, which I, you know, went to a film school for a year and dropped out of, or I could come out with a movie and hey, it could be that nobody ever sees this and it's whatever.
And I purposely like wasn't really posting about it on social media. I was talking about it on the No Film School podcast because I wanted people to learn with me as I was learning, but I didn't wanna feel the pressure of it has to be perfect and great, like it could be a total mess. And so that comes back to this balance of like, you know holding on, but also letting things be in a way.
I always say life is about like, finding the balance between caring too much and not giving a fuck. I knew the things that I cared about, but then there were certain things, like at one point a costume designer dropped out 'cause she had a job that would actually pay her well.
And then I was just like, okay, I'm gonna take over this for now. And then I would just go to the mall with the actors. And eventually Alabama Blonde, who did our casting, came on to help with costumes and carry us over the finish line, thank God. But like, you kinda just have to roll with these things when it's a micro budget and absorb it and deal with it. And there's value in that. So there were calculated risks, but I also, you know, as somebody who came from the world of ad sales. I worked at Google and YouTube and then I worked at the Wall Street Journal. And the last place I worked was Gimlet, this podcast company where I was basically like telling people that podcasts were gonna be a thing before they were a thing.
And I was very used to getting people excited about an idea and getting them to join the team if they wanted to whether it was supporting financially or in another capacity. So I was confident that I would be able to raise the money afterwards. But I felt a lot better asking for money when I was able to show people a pretty much picture locked version of the movie.
And get people on board and get people to fall in love with the characters in the movie. And that's how we raised the majority of our budget, was by showing people the movie.
Jeff: Yeah.
GG: Is that wild?
Jeff: But I think, I'm still trying to understand. I put my savings into my baby feature too. So I understand the, like do
GG: Can we get tattoos or something?
Jeff: A hundred percent. Yeah. When you come here.
GG: We our blood into our
Jeff: Yeah. But like, so in terms of how you're describing the financing, it was two rounds, is that what you're saying? Like the round for production and the round for post kind of, or like what was the money you were raising after?
GG: This I don't recommend, but we didn't have, we had a budget, but we didn't have a post budget by the time we had finished production. And so I, you know, worked with the producers to build something out and then I was also like, well, we also need to have a budget that like accounts for if we get into a non-buyers festival and if we get into a buyer's festival.
So at these different phases, when we were rolling out the budgets for these next phases of the film, post-production, and then sales and distribution, I was sort of raising in real time. So for example, I had a work in progress screening of the film, like an unfinished version at the Brave Maker Festival.
It was like unpublished. It was like, if you like The White Lotus, maybe you'll like this movie. Come see it. And I invited a bunch of my friends and family from the Bay Area and then a bunch of random people came in and at that point, like we were still raising money. And the Brave Maker team was like very generous in saying, well, what do you need?
And. Then in the Q&A, they're like, this is how much money we are raising. And then from that we raised $15,000.
Over the course of a couple of months, it was like, you know, 5,000 guaranteed in the moment. Somebody came to us two weeks later, somebody came to us two months later. So it was sort of this rolling process of putting ourselves out there.
There were other partners who came on to support us financially, where I straight up like cold DMed this production company that I really liked what they were doing in terms of how they were putting out, sharing how to make movies in a way that felt very like inclusive and safe and warm.
Sort of going against this narrative that we have to kill ourselves to make movies. And I just loved what they were doing. There were some language on their website about how they're looking to, for scripts and to support features. And so I just DMed them and then started a conversation and then, you know, a couple months, probably after six months, like finally they came on as a financier and I think gave us $35,000.
Jeff: After you proposed.
GG: Exactly. And some of that went to distribution costs, which in our sort of rolled out budget phase, looked at the costs. If we went to a buyer's festival, which you've talked about on the podcast before south by Sundance, Telluride, Tribeca, TIFF.
And so the costs for that would be slightly higher because we'd want to throw a party there, for example. And then on the other side, we have a non-buyers festival, which would mean, you know, we kind of have to figure out how to get the film out there in a different way.
So anyway it was a very interesting process, and I don't recommend, you know, not having these budgets built out beforehand. It was piecemeal.
Jeff: It’s hard though because like you went in and I was the same way. Like you went in with low expectations.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: And then the movie kind of snowballs to demand more.
GG: Exactly.
Jeff: It's like, as the movie improves and becomes more of a sellable tool, it requires more to buttress those needs. And all of a sudden you like have, you're like, this was gonna be like a DV camera film school, like mumble core thing. And like,
GG: I thought it was,
Jeff: I know. And then you're like, well fuck, we got into South by like, this is great, but like, how can I afford this?
GG: Yes.
Jeff: I guess like, I'm appreciate you talking about this because like, even as your movie becomes something that is sellable and will get coverage and variety in the trades. Like those prices are still incumbent on us, which like,
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: Stinks. You know, it's like, why is it that way?
GG: Can I just say that like behind every piece of coverage, like including, like when we got distribution, it was in variety. That was like from the team pushing. Like we had, you know, put out Feelers. We had gotten rejected for some reason Indie wire just like keeps rejecting our film, does not wanna cover the film.
Jeff: That is so weird. You're the perfect indie wire movie.
GG: I know. And I try to be pretty transparent about it because I think otherwise it can be a really just like lonely, frustrating process for filmmakers. But at every stage I've continued to push and like call in my network and people who can call in favors and like that is part of the hustle, is knowing who to call, when to better your chances to be seen.
And so, like even though we had been, we didn't have a PR team on at the time of our announcement for our distribution deal with Entertainment Squad we had sent out a press release with the announcement to, and the movie was about to be taken to the Cannes Marché, which, you know, is sounds cooler than it is because it's there's a million movies at the Marché.
I think a lot of people were like, “what? Your movie's at Cannes?” And I was like, it's not at the Cannes Film Festival. It's like, at
Jeff: It's nice though, the headline, you know.
GG: It is cool in the headline. It looks cool in that and so much of it is like smoke and mirrors in a way.
Jeff: I know. I know.
GG: And the reason I'm bringing it up is not because it's not valuable.
It is valuable. You have to be like you waft in the smoke in with a fan and continuing to light incense. Like get as much as you can in any way that you can.
Jeff: Yeah. You have to produce your own heat, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
GG: And and just the variety announcement of the distribution deal, and that will be at Cannes came from one of our EP’s, Yanick Ambrose, who came on, who you should have on the podcast because he has a crazy story about how he hustled, and after years of hustling Francis Ford Coppola's lawyer got a call from Francis Ford Coppola, and Francis was like, just shoot a movie on your iPhone.
And then he did, and he made this like Gonzo movie called Bondo World that's like a sequel to a movie from the fifties. And
Jeff: Oh my gosh. I’ll watch it.
GG: It's bananas. And but The Hustle came for Variety was like we had sort of reached out and gotten rejections from everyone else.
And then I was talking with him at a screening of another film and he was like, “well, I have one other guy I can try.” And then it worked. So it's like this whole process has had, there's, there have been so many nos and then one yes. At every single stage. And I think that it's that kind of like.
Being on the hamster wheel and at every stage and always trying to exhaust all your potential resources is what has led to so many yes’s at the end of the day. And that's just like my old school sales mindset, right. Where it's all about the numbers.
Jeff: Well, I wanna talk about a really important Yes.
Was getting into South by like I do, I think it's really hard for movies that, and I want to first of all acknowledge that like, part of the reason your movies are my top 10 from 2024 or whatever is 'cause I love the cast so much, but they're not like famous actors, you know? And,
GG: Yet,
Jeff: Exactly. I know, and I wanna speak tactfully. I, part of the reason I'm saying that is 'cause I can't wait for people to see their performances in this.
GG: Yeah. I totally agree that they're gonna be stars.
Jeff: You know, the thing that sucks about these festivals now is also famous A-list celebrities are scraping for opportunities to get into the top, like the top five tier festivals.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: Can you talk about like your lead up to South By and when you were okay, we might get in and then I do wanna talk a little bit about like what a movie without a celebrity attachment, how they navigate a festival like that.
GG: Yeah. It is so interesting how quick people are to dismiss a movie if there's not quote, unquote named talent attached. And I have seen it,
Jeff: The word I want to use to protect your actors is like a celebrity, right? Like, I feel like maybe that's like, I hate that word, but like, sadly that is like the tool that is gets used a lot, you know,
GG: It's a tool because it makes people feel safe and I feel so confident that all of the actors in this movie, Lisa Jacqueline Starrette, Arta Gee, Travis Quentin Young, and Madison Lanesey are going to have careers. They are just so talented and I'm so grateful for what they brought. And by the way, like not only are they incredible actors, we did not have hair and makeup on production like.
Every morning I'd lay out their costumes and then they would have to go and like change and run back and we're in this like thick, muggy Panama heat with bugs, sand fleas, like biting them, like literally just. They brought so much to the movie and their performances are phenomenal. And they would every single night be rehearsing and have their lines down, like, and a lot of, I mean, Madison had a thousand monologues that she always had memorized.
So it really is such a shame that the industry will dismiss a movie because there's no name talent like we after South By. And one of the strategies we had going to trying to get into a buyer's festival is that if we got in, we would be able to, buyers would come and see the movie.
We, and Glen Reynolds, who was our sales rep, has this beautiful spreadsheet that's live, where you can see who the movie's out to, and then comments.
Jeff: I've seen spreadsheet. I should be candid, Glen repped my movie too. So I yes, I'm familiar.
GG: So it's satisfying, right? It's like,
Jeff: Yeah, he's great at his job.
GG: Great at his job. Like, so patient with me, I call him all the time. But what it was interesting to see, you know, Netflix immediate no. We only have talent, only name talent, only celebrities. The stars aren't big enough. Magnolia wrote a really nice email, like a really nice response. It was a rejection, but it was like,
Jeff: That's cool.
GG: They clearly watched the movie.
Jeff: Yeah.
GG: And so constantly there's been this like, you know, well, nobody knows these. And I'm gonna be like, I'm just gonna be like, you just sit back and watch their star meter crawl, like rise to the top. I mean, Lisa Jacqueline Starrett literally is in a Beyonce music video now.
Like, you know, Travis is playing Gavin Newsom. So it, there's a little bit of like, well, your loss.
Jeff: For Sure
GG: And it's really easy to have that perspective when I feel so confident in the performances. Anyway, I digress. It has been a block at every stage that there's no quote unquote named talent celebrity.
Jeff: My listeners ask about this a lot, which is part of the reason I'm asking you. And my movie's the same. I mean, again, like I'm so proud to know, like one of my actors just like booked a cool subplot in Matlock, like the
GG: Yay!
Jeff: And obviously like he steals the episodes he's in. And it's also fun that we can say like, they were in our movie first, like, it's fun to like claim ownership a little bit over that.
But I think the reason I'm asking is 'cause like, what was your strategy going into a buyer's festival, knowing you didn't have like that shallow, but sometimes necessary feeling gloss around it, if that makes sense.
GG: Yeah
Jeff: Because that's most of my listeners.
GG: Well, we definitely, going into the buyer's festival, we knew we needed a PR team, which is a must have.
Like, and this is what, Claudette Godfrey, who runs South By says in the kickoff for filmmakers, if you don't have a PR team, you're doing it wrong. You cannot do it yourself. It's built off of relationships. So we hired Fons PR, which is an Austin based PR company. They also do a bunch of a 24 and South By PR.
They were the official PR partner for South By, they were also like more affordable than the LA and New York teams. And then they also had this strategy, which was very smart, which was to get us rotten tomato reviews. Like we needed to get to the point where we were showing up on Rotten Tomatoes. And that was kind of the goal of South By, was to get reviews and coverage and press.
Of course there's this like ironic cycle of, well, you can't, like, the trades don't wanna cover a movie that may never be seen because it doesn't have distribution yet. And the irony being that you need coverage in the trades do get distribution, arguably. Yeah. But it's just part of this hustle game where you have to keep adding heat to yourself and your project and pull the levers to do that.
And so the Fons PR team shout out to Danielle York, who was our main point of contact, was fundamental in helping us create that buzz and momentum. We also had like a little budget for a little stunty moment. There's this sort of running, hero prop, which are these sunglasses with the eyeballs on 'em, which you know, in those three months of writing, I saw a Pinterest thing where a guy was wearing just like clear reading glasses, but eyeballs painted on it.
I'm like, oh my god. Sunglasses with eyeballs. That's like literally so true to the movie where these people are performing at who they are and there's a reason that they paint them that you can, I won't spoil. But yeah, so we created these sunglasses with eyeballs on 'em that weirdly like, ended up on Doug loves movies. The other
Jeff: I didn't know that it.
GG: I mean, he would literally pull 'em out of a gif bag outta live show. He is like, and there are these sunglasses that from this movie at South By, called I Really Love My Husband.
Jeff: Oh, huge.
GG: Audience laughs.
Jeff: I love Doug Benson. That's great.
GG: No mention of it in the podcast again, but hey.
Jeff: Oh, it didn’t make it in?
GG: No, it did it did.
Jeff: Oh it did. Good good good.
GG: It, well, he just mentioned the sunglasses, but like, hey. That's like,
Jeff: Take what you can get,
GG: That's gorilla marketing working, in my opinion. I'm like,
Jeff: Totally.
GG: I just want people to be aware of the movie and so, and then my buddy Max Gibson, who's also a filmmaker based in New York, who you should meet, he's awesome.
We worked at Gimlet together. Oh, cool. And then we became friends like in post Gimlet filmmaker times, he came and he did like social media stuff for us. So we were like, you know, going around interviewing people. It was very like gorilla because we don't have the resources. And we threw one party.
And we brought on a couple of sponsors like Dolly Card, which is like an expenses platform that a friend of the producers friend knew. And so it was very scrappy in a lot of ways. I learned, don't get a perm right before your press day. Yeah, I learned a lot of things
Jeff: After being in Panama you should have known.
GG: I know. I really should have. Tthe thing in Panama, it's so hot and like you, you don't eat that much. So we all came back from Panama looking like so spelt, and our skin was glowing and we should have just gone to Panama right before, and we would've been like red carpet ready.
Jeff: Yeah. That's amazing. I want to talk quickly about the deal if I can.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: Okay. So Entertainment Squad. I don't even know this distributor, but it got a lot of coverage. Tell me.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: Tell me.
GG: So we ended up getting four offers. And I'm just gonna be fully transparent and I'll apologize later if I'm not allowed to say this.
No minimum guarantee anywhere.
Jeff: That surprises me.
GG: But you know, that's the market that we're in.
Jeff: We got a really small minimum guarantee, which surprised me, but
GG: Hell yeah.
Jeff: Your movie went to, I mean, it just shows you how much things have even changed in a year.
GG: Yes. Yes.
Jeff: Because like your movie had presumably, at least on paper, like even quote, more heat than mine.
And we managed to scrape a little, it ended up getting pulled out of marketing, but. Okay, so we don't need to put this on the show, but we can decide what we do or don't want to share. But it's a great example of like a movie covered in Variety, went to the Cannes Marché, has 92% on Rotten Tomatoes, showed up on some lists, went to South By, is not getting MGs.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: Like that is just how it is.
GG: Yeah. And I think that I went in with the lowest expectations. I was like, will anyone oversee this movie? It'll take a year to find distribution. It happened very quickly, I think, because I, one had really low expectations, but two, like we worked really hard to like be set up for success leading up to it. Like,
Jeff: So for anyone listening, we've set MG a couple times. A minimum guarantee would be like the “here is your check for the movie outright before we even take it to platforms.” So it's the check you get for sending the movie to the distributor.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: And mine was like four figures. So it shows you the kind of money that indie filmmakers are getting for these.
GG: You can pay yourself back for one day of shooting, probably something like that.
Jeff: Exactly. Yeah, for sure.
GG: Yes. I think it was helpful knowing how tough it was and just talking to so many filmmakers and having so many conversations about how, you know, people aren't buying like they used to.
And it's fascinating, like learning about this side of the business, which is ultimately trickling down to, you know, how films get financed in the first place. Because there aren't these like, you know, bidding wars like there used to be in the good old Sundance Hot Tub Days, which you can listen to about in no film school.
But we had two offers from essentially like aggregators and one offer from a distribution company that is tied to like a top tier festival, at least the brand is associated with it. And I was like, we're definitely going with that one. And they just didn't have like a clear, it didn't seem like they were going to be promoting the movie outside of their mail list. And Yanick Ambrose, our EP, was looking at some of their titles on and seeing how few letterbox reviews they were getting. So it seemed like they weren't really doing that much to promote the film.
So I think it was they, the films that they had. So it seemed like an aggregator with a fancy shiny title, but it was great. I was like, this would be a great thing to be associated with just from a, you know, pure the valid stamp. And by the way, I feel like the validation stamp is one of the things along the way, like South By, great. South By not only a validation stamp, but like a great experience, but like the variety announcement for Entertainment Squad and the Cannes Marché.
The stamp that we're looking for. And then out of nowhere we were, you know, basically planning on moving forward with said company the shiny, that would be a shiny stamp. And then Entertainment Squad gave us an offer and it included theatrical and I was like, Entertainment Squad, I've never heard of this, but I looked on their website and I was like, they distributed my buddy Henry Loevner’s film Peak Season. And Henry is actually kind of the guy who gave me permission to make a micro budget. He made two micro budgets that both premiered at South By and I got on a call with him, like introduced to a friend over the pandemic and he was like, “You should do it.”
And I was like, okay. Like I guess you gave me permission and you've done it twice now and let's figure it out. And somebody that I could call up all the time and ask questions and, he got on a call. I stepped out of the Minecraft movie where my nephews were having a grand old time. I stepped out, talked to Henry, asked him about his experience with Entertainment Squad, and he was like, “I love it. They're very transparent. You work with this guy, Shaked Berenson and he's very involved”
But also like, you know, I was like, everything about this film, when it works, it's when we do it in a way that's like slightly scrappier, slightly more with people who are engaged and that has been the experience.
Like I can WhatsApp Shaked, I ended up hanging out with him a ton at Cannes, which I was going to for. As I'm putting on my producer hat for my husband and his writing and directing partners movie, this like body horror comedy, that we were already going to Cannes to be in the mix and in the market and taking meetings just happened to be that I was gonna be there and it was represented by Entertainment Squad at the Marché.
And I just like got to hang out and get to know Shaked and his team. And that was really valuable because like and he gave me posters that I was hanging around, you know, Cannes the whole week we were there, putting them in bathrooms, you know, probably getting in trouble. He was like, “Get in trouble. That'll be good. That means we're doing the right thing.”
And so that was the experience and it's been really refreshing to work with you know, a team that's like, there's kind of like the leaned back correct way to do it. And then there's the like leaned in. How do we hustle and squeeze everything for what it's worth?
And even getting our theatrical release has been part of that hustle, like, I bet. Trying to engage with theaters and so that's where the pushing never stops. You always have to be pushing.
Jeff: Yeah. I feel like it's one of the hard things, I really think of myself as a writer and I love directing, but like the hard thing about being a director, especially early in your career, is like, so much of that is just a part of it.
And like, it's tough to like, maintain that motivation and momentum 'cause it's just, it is just a constant pushing a boulder up a hill.
GG: Yeah.
Jeff: And like, yeah, theatrical was something I like, I was like, you know, I would've loved this, but like, I kind of was burned out at the end of our run. Like, we had a great festival run.
We did some cool premieres, we played festivals I loved, and I was like, you know, I just don't know if I have it in me to do this big theatrical push if I'm just being candid on the show. Yeah. There's only so much gas in the tank. You know,
GG: I feel that so hard. I feel like I am. Only in the last two or three weeks.
I don't know if you can hear how tired I am. I’m very. Even coming back from a do nothing holiday. I'm exhausted. And at the end of the day, especially for a micro budget or an indie film, like you are the core. There are gonna be people who are with you for seasons and great. And you need to lean on them, but like you're the only person pushing it forward.
And it, or it's usually you or one other person. And so, I think it's fair to be realistic and I think it's totally cool to be like, yeah, we don't need a theatrical, the theatrical of it all is in a way a stamp. It's a stamp of validation. It's not necessarily going to make a material difference, but you have to sort of understand how, like, take a very realistic.
Assessment of your, like how much gas is in your tank and can you do it? And will you have the support to do it? And I don't think doing it just for the sake of doing it is the reason to do it.
Jeff: Well, I will say like no matter what happens with the continued run, I know theatricals would be great, but like, you made something so good.
Like if you just put, I know. 'cause it's like in this phase of distribution and it can feel like you're never doing enough. I remember feeling that too, of just like, God, like I know I could be doing more like, but there is only so much gas in the tank and like we do have to remember that like one of the goals has to be like, make a good thing.
And you, I love your debut. I just think it's like so exciting.
GG: You saw it early on and too
Jeff: I did. I know.
GG: Your love for it meant so much to me. It filled up my tank a little bit.
Jeff: Good. Well, I, it was just exciting. I was like, okay, this like has a point of view and great performances and like some great third act twist, maybe I'll just save it. So that's, this can be a totally spoiler free episode, but like the movie does pull back layers on itself in a way that kept me glued. And it's a lean 80 minutes, which I love. There's just like a lot of reasons for our audience to go see it.
A, to support indie films, but like, B, it's like a great looking, funny, sharply observed movie about relationships that like will challenge you but also make you smile. I think it's really hard to do both. So I'm just like so proud of you GG. Like, I hope you
GG: Thank you.
Jeff: I don't mean, I hope that doesn't sound condescending,
GG: Not at all.
Jeff: but it's like really funny to see your friends do really great things. Yeah,
GG: And I've been, you know, listening to the Screenwriter Life. I know we connected I think. I don't remember if I, I had shot the movie yet, or
Jeff: I've been listening to NFS. It's funny, I listened back to our No Film School interview and you were like, I just got out of a table read of this micro budget I'm doing and like I feel like I've got all these rewrites and
GG: Oh my God.
Jeff: Yeah. So like if you wanna like trauma re-live, you can go listen to that interview. And if you would've known then that your movie was going to debut at South By you would've been like, this is great. It's a reminder that like, we just have to keep pushing that boulder.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: You know.
GG: And can I say that like, your episode was so helpful and informative and even when we first started emailing and you were like, well, we could talk about this, and this, and this.
I was like, wow, this is so thoughtful. And I have, it feels like we've just been like, before we met, we were already on each other's journeys 'cause we've been like listening to each other.
Jeff: Totally.
GG: It's the Parasocial podcast relationship. Exactly.
Jeff: There is a filmmaker that we both love who has incredible taste and a really smart, just, I love everything she makes you do too.
And I know she's seen it. I don't wanna say more to protect her and your relationship with her, but can you talk a little bit about how you made that happen and what it feels like knowing she's seen it?
GG: Yes. So this is a great, like, you know, always be pushing, but I interviewed a filmmaker on the podcast who does like horror comedy stuff on no film school and he was like, “if you ever need anything, let me know.” And then two years go by and we've exchanged a couple of emails and then I was like, okay, I need something. I need a festival, fairy godparent. I need somebody to help me. And he, you know, looked at some of the movie and he was like, “I know there's this person who I love who, I actually don't know her, but like, I feel like she'd be great for this. Let me have my team reach out to her team to see if you can connect.”
And so like a month goes by and eventually, like his team had connected with her team and then he gave me her email and it was sort of like a caveat of like, “well, you know, I can't guarantee I can like, help out in any way, but, because I like mentored some people already, but here's my email.”
So what I did was I sent her an email and I said, I sent Yes Daddy the short, which is four minutes and 44 seconds. And I was like, “if you like the short, I'd be happy to send along the movie. I'd love to hear your thoughts and how it can be, you know, out in the world.”
And then she watched the short and she was like, “send along the movie” and then she called me on a Saturday and she was like, “I loved it. It reminded me of my divorce and I love it.” And then we talked for an hour and it was like talking to one of the people who has not only influenced me as a filmmaker, but also has just had this ripple effect.
And it was an amazing thing because it was like, wow. I'm not crazy. There's something here. And it was really, it refilled my tank in a lot of ways. So.
Jeff: Those are the moments where it's like you have to like create specific personal milestones when you make these things 'cause like that will forever be a thing that happened and I trust that it could be 10 years, but like something else will come from that conversation in that moment. But like, even if it's just like a hero of mine loved the thing I made and was personally moved by it, like, that's pretty cool.
GG: That's a huge win.
Jeff: Yeah.
GG: And I think it's something that I need to hang onto in the context of like the marathon that is a career as a filmmaker.
Yeah. Like I have only been paid one time to direct anything and it was an episode of a podcast, like I am still figuring out how to do this. So even with all these stamps, even with all this success like you still have to be fighting and pushing. And yeah it's part of the journey.
So hopefully this sort of demystifies things and I actually teach a course on micro budget filmmaking that I'm gonna be launching again in the fall with New 32. Which is a production company worth checking out. I love what they do. But one of the things that I talk about in this course is having a way to pay your bills.
And you were working while you were making your movie, Jeff? I was working while I was making my movie. It's really important to know that's okay and there's no shame in having a side hustle or maybe a full hustle and making the movie as the side hustle. So that's just something I wanted to,
Jeff: Or they're both full hustles, honestly.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: That's probably what it's,
GG: Yeah. And I think it is worth it. I think it is worth it.
Jeff: Yeah. Well, anyway, I'm so excited for you. I am imploring our listeners to go see it because like what we talk about on the show, it is a well-written movie. Like there's a lot of reasons to go see it, but a lot of our listeners are writers and like it is a lava filled movie.
GG: I was gonna say, we go into the lava.
Jeff: You go into the, there's that, there's a scene on Secret Island that is like lava and it's perfectly encapsulated. And I just feel confident that our listeners will really enjoy it. Like it's an enjoyable, smart, funny, and you'll leave thinking about what GG talks about in the movie.
Go see it in theater, especially New York or LA, Where else?
GG: So the week of mid-September is when things start kicking up.
Jeff: Great.
GG: On September 17th, we are screening with American Cinema Tech.
Jeff: Great.
GG: In LA. So come see that screening if you're in LA. September 19th we're doing a preview screening in New York City at Look Cinemas. September 20th we'll be coming out to DC just outside of DC. Virginia for another screening at Look Cinemas. At all of these screenings I'll be at a Q&A then the following week, we are you know, going wide for one or two weeks. And maybe more, but we'll be in LA, Dallas, Virginia, that DC area, Burrows, I think is what it's called.
New York, very likely, and Redlands in California. Which by the way, on the 21st of September, I'll be doing a Q&A in Redlands, and there are three people who have bought tickets to that screening and I love them. I love you. I can't wait to talk with you. Hopefully there'll be more by then. And we are, oh, and then we're also doing a two week run in Panama starting October 16th.
So shout out to our Panama listeners and the film community there. And if anyone ever wants to talk about shooting in Panama, it's amazing. They have incredible technical talent there and I love it. So yeah, a lot of screenings coming up. If you follow, I Really Love My Husband movie on Instagram.
It'll all be posted there. We also have a couple of screenings coming up at Chapman, which is Madison's school, alma mater. NYU, Feirstein, this film school I dropped out of. Maybe San Diego State University? So we'll be bopping around. Come check us out and see the movie. See the movie on the, it's worth seeing with an audience. I think it's really fun.
Jeff: There's a couple twists that will have you gripping your armrest.
GG: Yes.
Jeff: GG, thank you so much. I'm so excited for you. You did it.
GG: Thank you, Jeff.
Jeff: I always feel so refreshed after talking with GG, and I'm especially inspired by the way, with this movie, she set herself that incredibly ambitious deadline going from idea to shooting in just three months. Yes, that pace isn't for everyone, but in her case, it was a totally brilliant move because it helped her capture lightning in a bottle. And I really love how honest she was about what happens after you make the movie.
Getting into a festival, even a top tier one like South By Southwest isn't the finish line, it's the starting line. Once you're there, you still have to hustle and still have to create your own buzz if you wanna deliver a great sale.
Thank you so much to GG for coming on the show today. I Really Love My Husband is playing in a number of cities as you heard her talk about, and you should definitely go check it out.
It's definitely the kind of movie that would be super fun to see in the theater. It's really well made, it looks great, and it's just a really smart, refreshing, indie. Definitely worth checking out. And until next time, remember that your dreams don't require anyone else's permission.
