256 | Getting Repped in a Post-Strike Industry - Part 1 (ft. Daniela Gonzalez & Garrett Greer)

In part one of a two-part conversation, literary managers Daniela Gonzalez (Good Fear Content) and Garrett Greer (Haven Entertainment) join us to unpack what “breaking in” looks like today.

Even as the industry pulls back and fewer projects are greenlit, getting repped isn’t out of reach. In some ways, the path has fewer gatekeepers than ever — you just need to be strategic.

We dig into why generals matter less, why your writing sample matters more, and why even truly emerging writers might be closer to making something they love than they think.

Whether you’re unrepresented or looking to level up, this episode is full of grounded advice, hopeful perspective, and practical takeaways for navigating a shifting industry.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Jeff: Hey TSL fam, producer Jeff here with a quick production note. This is actually gonna be part one of a two-part conversation that we had with incredible literary managers, Daniela Gonzalez and Garrett Greer. It's a really insightful conversation, particularly for emerging writers when it comes to a post-strike industry.

So make sure you listen all the way through and make sure you don't miss part two next week. 

Lorien: Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Screenwriting Life. I'm Lorien McKenna, and today we're gonna be talking about representation. I'm joined by two literary managers, Daniela Gonzalez and Garrett Greer, who are prepared to answer all your questions.

Like, how do I get a manager? When is it time to start looking for representation? What should I be looking for? What are some red flags? Once I have a manager, how do I work with them? What are the expectations in a healthy working relationship with a rep? What's the difference between a manager and an agent?

Do I need both? And of course, is it true that once I get a manager I will be working full-time forever? Spoiler alert. No. We've talked about representation before on the show, but today we're revisiting it because things have changed since our last episode. With reps specifically, what does it mean for emerging writers who are building their careers post-strike?

So first I'm gonna introduce Daniela Gonzalez. She is a literary manager at Good Fear Content, an LA based management and production company known for representing generation defining talent. Oh, I like that. Daniela's TV clients have written for Severance, The Wilds, Only Murders in the Building, Running Point, and Nancy Drew. On the feature side Daniela's clients have secured work at major studios, including Disney, Lionsgate, Tristar, and Amazon. She identifies as a TCI (third culture individual). Venezuelan born with a childhood in Southeast Asia, now calling the United States home. Prior to working at Good Fear Content, Daniela was with Circle of Confusion for nearly a decade.

Daniela holds a BA in film production with a minor in film producing from New York University, and she's currently completing a part-time MBA at Pepperdine University. 

All right, let's move on to Garrett Greer. Garrett is a manager and producer at Haven Entertainment. He began his career in television as an assistant at the Kaplan Stahler Agency, followed by ABC Studios, Fox Broadcasting Company, and Ryan Murphy Television. While at Ryan Murphy, he was promoted to manager of development later moving to MTV's scripted department. After two years at MTV, he transitioned into representation as a literary manager working first at Rain Management Group before moving over to Haven Entertainment.

His clients have written and directed TV shows and films for Universal, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Apple, HBO, FX, Showtime, NBC, and ABC among others. As a producer, Garrett has developed TV projects with Lionsgate and Imagine. So welcome to the show. 

Garrett: Thanks for having us. 

Daniela: Happy to be here. 

Lorien: So before we get into our really amazing conversation, we are gonna do Adventures in Screenwriting, which is where we talk about our weeks.

My week has been about discovering that while I give really good advice on the podcast and so does Meg, I have a really hard time taking it myself in that I have lots of personal stuff going on and professional stuff, and I have a deadline and I'm spending time doing all the creative projects I have including a book series that I broke.

Which may or may not be part of what I'm supposed to be doing, but it's really hard to sit down and focus and take my own advice because practically it's much different to tell somebody, drink a glass of water, stretch, take for a walk, than it is to actually do those things for myself. Daniela, how was your week?

Daniela: It's the middle of the year. It's the middle of the summer. I always expect this time of year to be relatively quiet, and this week was nice. It was filled with a lot of life from the business. I closed a deal for my client to join a TV show, which is really nice. So that was exciting. 

Lorien: So staffing is happening.

Daniela: Staffing is happening. Okay. Staffing is happening though we don't have to talk about like the nature of the deal, but it was an agonizing process, so, you know, if that's the truth. And then I met with a potential client this week and it was a invigorating conversation and I was like, yes, okay.

This is breathing a lot of life back into the business and it's been great. So I have no, I have some complaints, but none that really, this is not the forum for.

Lorien: Garrett, how was your week? 

Garrett: I have to sort of echo what she was saying, where like this week felt good, work-wise in that like, I'm negotiating for a development deal with a client at a studio.

I mean, it's a grind and it sucks. And, you know, the new normal, I guess is, you know, trying to underpay writers who are desperate for work. But you know, that. That is still on the whole a positive thing. I have a new client that I signed in the spring that I am taking out to agents this week, which is really exciting because she's really special and I, you know, I'm excited to build the team.

And I, as someone who is really good at procrastinating got through a lot of material and gave feedback this week. So I am proud of myself for that and happy. That I have plans this evening to go drink some wine with some friends. 

Lorien: Oh, nice. Oh nice. Yeah, the whole like, rest restorative thing also baffling to me these days.

I'm doing really good you guys, so you wanna get ready to party and talk about representation and writing and all that stuff. So I have big question right out the gate, what is up with being ghosted right now in the industry? Not by reps, but like, like, just like somehow that's the new pass. 

Garrett: Oh, I mean, that's not a new pass.

That's a tried and true pass. 

Lorien: I haven't experienced it before. Like I've usually gotten the like, thanks so much for coming in. We're gonna pass. Here's why. You know, you never know the real reason why, but you know, you at least get some kind of connection. But I just felt like, wow, that was... okay.

Garrett: I can guarantee your reps have been ghosted. So much. It is that's, that to me is the, that's my kryptonite. Like Daniela and I like, you know, as managers, like we're not in control of success or failure. It's like we create opportunity and someone else has to take the ball and cross the finish line or whatever sports metaphor is appropriate.

And all we can do is just like, stand on the sides and hope it works. But for me, if like, if I'm calling an executive or producer and being like, Hey, like this thing, oh, I'm so excited to read it, can't wait, da dah, and then I never hear from them again. It makes me crazy because like so long as I did everything I could possibly do to create a successful opportunity, then I can't be upset about an outcome. because like I did everything, what else could I have done? But that makes me nuts, fucking nuts. 

Daniela: Yeah. Yeah. I just want the feedback. Like, I wanna know why it didn't land. I wanna know why it, like whether it's the mandate has changed or I am feel so insecure in my job right now that I don't feel comfortable saying yes to anything, even if I love it because I have to sell it up and all the like.

Context is very powerful, but I went out with a pilot in April. Went out to buyers with a, like a-list production company and it had, it's a beautiful package and to this day there's still one buyer who hasn't gotten back to us and like, hasn't even admitted to having read the script. And it's like mind boggling to me because I'm like.

This doesn't give me a lot of confidence to go into the next development round with my client and say like, it was just the time of the year. Or, you know, the feedback can drive, or lack of feedback can drive you crazy. Yes. But at the same time, it's like we just sort of have to pick up and do it all over again.

Lorien: Yeah. For as a writer, it's so frustrating. You know, I went out with a pitch that I love. It was actually a really great pitch, which sometimes I'm like, oh, they're obviously not gonna buy it. because it was such a positive pitch. But it's not just the pitch I'm pitching, it's the relationship that I'm committing to and can, I'm connecting to the execs, so when I don't hear anything after two months.

Either a pass or we want more information or just even like, it was great, but whatever the reason is that to me, it's just a yes or a no. I'm interested in, but if I don't hear anything, then I'm like, well, can I. I'm making up the reasons why, like, do you hate me? Are you still working there? Did I do so There's no relationship that I can be like, Hey, I have someone to refer you to, or let's, I have another pitch.

You know, that's the piece that I feel like is missing in the ghosting or I feel like it's not the best practice. Anyway. 

Garrett: Yeah, I mean, more information is always helpful, even if it's bad information. Like, I love a no, give me a no. Yes, like closure. I don't want to be up at night and being like, what's going on?

Like, is this real? Is this happening? You know, or to Daniela's point, it's like, how can I adjust next time?

Lorien: You all work with emerging rep, emerging writers, right? Like this is something I'm sure you also have experienced writers and have developed careers and a question we get all the time is, how do I get a manager? And our response, my response is usually like, well, have you sold anything yet? Because a manager or an agent wants to invest in somebody that they know is a known moneymaking person, writer. But I realize with emerging writers, that's not helpful at all. So how does an emerging writer know when it's time and what do they do?

Daniela: Garrett and I trying to make eye contact with who wants to take this first? 

Garrett: I'll start, I guess. I mean, it's tough because I think everybody.

Every manager, every rep does things a little bit differently. You know, I get in my inbox probably like 40 to 50 emails a week. That's just sort of like a blind, like, hi, like our, all of our emails, every rep's email is on a website somewhere. 

I don't know what that website is, but it's there.

They have them all because like, I got an email this week that was like, dear Garrett and my boss got an email this week that said, dear Jesse, same email. Oh, they're doing it one by one. And honestly, like I get it, like if you know, have no other means, like that's the thing, but like I get 40 to 50 of those a week.

Like I can't possibly engage with them. So like, you know, I think the best way, the way that I sign people is by referral predominantly, it's like, so it's like someone I know, knows somebody that knows me. You, it is like, or that, that knows a writer or whatever and it gets passed along that way.

But two, I think like from outside the system. The nice thing for emerging talent is that there are, you know, screenwriting competitions that are, you know, it's not like the Central Valley Script-a-Thon, but like actual real competitions that, you know, wind up getting press on Variety or Deadline. There are the, you know, writers' workshop programs at the studios.

Like, you know, Lena Waithe has her Hillman Grad Writers Workshop, which actually a client of mine runs. And like, those are all things that if people are looking for talent, like those are good. because that sort of serves as the referral to an extent. It's like these people were good enough to hop over these hurdles to get here.

And the nice thing is those are available to, you know, anyone with an internet connection pretty much. 

Daniela: Yeah, and I think to add to that point, while those programs and workshops like help vet and vet some of these individuals, I. We'll read scripts that didn't necessarily win. Like with the Nicholls, it's, I've had clients who've placed as quarterfinalists, and I'm looking through the loglines and looking at what story might resonate with me.

I think the challenging thing, if someone is going to query a manager is, you have to find a way to like personalize why you are identifying that manager as a potential match. Because if I feel like I'm part of this, like mass volume email, even if it's individualized, it's like you hear the ding, ding across the office because we all got the same email from the same person.

I don't feel special, and so therefore I don't wanna pay attention to it. Right. And the power of the referral is that person who's recommending someone to me knows my taste and that I really value and I'm gonna pay attention to because this is a relationship business. And I, you know, you did ask the question like, when do you know if you're ready for a manager?

And. I like to believe it's like, how have you exhausted every relationship that you have? How have you exhausted your network in terms of trying to build your own momentum? And at what point do you see, my manager is going to expand my network, to help curate my portfolio and advocate for me in a meaningful way where it'll springboard my career but not rely wholly on the manager for that to happen. So this person's coming in and like, you know, getting in the car as co-pilot rather than starting to drive the car on your behalf. And that, that's, I mean, that requires a lot of judgment but definitely isn't. I wrote one pilot and now I feel ready for a manager. It's someone who understands their voice, understands their convictions, and sees an opportunity for themselves, and is looking for that partner who sees that as well.

Garrett: And I think one extra sort of layer to that particular thing is like, you have to feel like your script, whatever it is that the manager's gonna read, is like a hundred percent there. That you cannot possibly make it any better. because if you're just oh, I think it's good enough, it's like, if that's not good enough, you know it like it has to, you only have, you only get one chance to make a first impression, you know?

And so it has to be the best possible foot forward. If you're going to, especially, you know, with all of the noise around, you know, the business, like how are you gonna break through that if it's not the best you can do? 

Lorien: Yeah. I wanna have a couple follow up questions. So the contest, right, the Nicholl, the, or even like winning Cinestory or getting into a retreat or something.

How does somebody who maybe doesn't have a lot of industry contacts, but they've won something, they can get attention, how do they actually practically leverage that to get the attention of a manager? 

Daniela: My hope is through the program that they're a part of, whether it's Cinestory or Blacklist or whatever, that there is a point of contact there that wants to find success for their alumni and using them as the referral.

And to say, you know, I'm looking for a manager for this reason. This is the type of person I am looking for. And you have to be very specific of like, I have a piece of material that I developed in this program that's not been exposed. I'm looking for a producer and I want a manager to not only play matchmaker, but also help build out my like – every other milestone I need to hit to meet my career ambition, that point of contact is key. But if you're in a competition, some of these competitions aren't designed for. Like there's one point of contact who wants to find success for everyone. But then that's where in the query letter in your subject line or like, you know, I don't wanna read 500 words.

If someone says, I recently placed in X contest and I know you like to represent Y client, this is why I think you should read my script. Done three sentences. Then I get to be the judge. But that's how you're leveraging it. And like Garrett said, our emails are on the internet. So 

Lorien: I always say to people, if people are on their phone, if they get exactly what you're looking for by looking at their email on their phone, those first three lines, that's what you're aiming for, right?

Like it's brevity to the point. Headlines, right? The pilot is the show. It is not the backstory and the setup. It's like. Do the thing. Tell me what you want. Tell me who you are. Yeah. And then the other question is, you, Daniela, have talked a lot about someone being the driver in the relationship, not the co-pilot.

Right. There is an expectation, I think, among a lot of people, emerging, experienced, whatever, that you get an agent and a manager and then they tell you what to do. They get the meetings, they're gonna sort of get it out of you, who you are and what you want. My experience is the opposite. Right. I have to show up and be like, here's what I wanna do.

Here are my goals and get perspective from my manager. And support, right? Hopefully, because we're the same, but it's requiring a lack of maturity coming into it and knowing the industry rather than, I wrote one pilot, I wanna be in TV.. So how does a writer get that experience and that knowledge and the understanding of who they are and what they wanna do, in order to communicate it.

And would you like to teach a class on that? 

Daniela: I mean, what an existential question. Do you know who you are? Do you know your values? But I think it's like if you have these convictions as a writer, I would like to believe that you have a sense of like, these are the stories that inspired me and as a result, like I want to find my perspective in those stories and like extend that.

And there are some writers too, where it's like, I love a bunch of different genres, but ultimately underneath it all, I wanna tell underdog stories or you know, like there could be so many different categories to it. If you cannot answer that question, no manager or agent is gonna be able to answer that for you, and it makes it incredibly hard to sell.

Why are you the person to go and staff in this room? Or why are you the only person who can fill this open writing assignment? So it does take a lot of introspection and you have to go, okay, like I have a client who loves to talk about, or loves to write about what she's thinking about. Like corporate greed, and she's like, okay, how am I going to translate that into that story?

And then with the layer of I need to tell female led stories, so it then. I'm starting to ramble, but it's just about finding the way of like, you're gonna have a portfolio of work, what's gonna be your summary of that portfolio? And the summary has to be, only I can tell stories like this. And if you can't do that, then you're probably, you know, there's a gap between that stage and getting a manager and you have to fill that gap.

Garrett: I think tying the previous question to this one a little bit too, it's like, you know, if I'm getting sent a writer and I get sent like more than one script, essentially I'm I don't know what to do here. because a lot of time I have had experience in the past where it's like, here's a really light broadcast style, half hour comedy, and here's a really dark, serious like cable drama.

And I'm just like, okay, who are you? Like if I can't look at the work and sort of get a sense of who you are as a storyteller. And it's not like everyone has to be one thing, but I think when you are starting out, you have to decide, alright, where am I going to begin? And you can grow as your and expand as your career does, but you cannot be everything all at once at the beginning.

Lorien: So what if you're someone who has written a feature, an hour long TV show, like a half hour, but they're all something connecting them that's very clear. Right. Like voice, tone, character. Is that okay? Or are you really looking for like, I've written two, hour procedurals?

Garrett: I think it is fine.

I will say, unless it's someone that's like a friend of mine that I'm considering representation for, like I'm only going to read one thing. And so I think that like whoever that writer is. And that's that I feel pretty confident saying that, you know, that could apply to most reps if they're considering somebody.

They wanna look at like, those three things that are similar and there's a cohesive tie in and go, which is the best representation and lead with that. And then, you know, if we start working together, yeah, I'll read everything else and I'll see how I can, you know, put, make sure that I'm using the tools that we have available to us in those other scripts.

But it's like you have one. You have one first impression. Make it the best you can be. 

Lorien: So for example, so I've got a whole bunch of stuff, right? I've got preschool, animation, feature, live action, you know, all the things. But the place I know I really wanna be in is like, let's say half hour comedy that's really drama, right? Dramedy.. So I would say, okay, I'm gonna send you, if you ask for a rec, if you say, okay, I wanna read you, I'd say, okay, great. Here's my half hour dramedy.. Right, because I'm saying, this is who, how I want you to see me without having to be like, I have all these other scripts and blah, blah, blah.

It's like, this is who I am. And then you read that and then you make your decision about whether you wanna meet with me more based on that read. Right. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So I'm saying my best. My first impression is the first piece of this is who I am and what I wanna do, and the writer I am and how I see myself in my career.

So that like you're saying that right up front just by whatever piece you submit. Sorry, I'm getting so nitty gritty, but really like, these are the kinds of questions that we get asked on the show. Like, how many scripts do I send? How many should I have? What should I be sending? And it's really about that self knowledge piece of, it's not that you have to only have written five dramedy pilots, it's that you're putting that like, this is where I wanna be.

And then if you're like, great, I love this and I met with you and I love you, what else do you have? And you're like, well, I only have the one of that space, so I'm sure your advice would be, write more if that's what you wanna see. 

Daniela: Right. I like if I love the writing of the one dramedy piece and it's like, you know, my portfolios reflective of all of these different things.

But the path ahead, why I want a manager is to build out the dramedy career is, okay, let's talk about. The 10 loglines for your next piece, because you have to constantly be generating and now coaching through what that next piece of material is while simultaneously using that first piece I fell in love with, to introduce you to the people who are gonna help.

Just be your advocates and you know, they're responding to the material hopefully as strongly as I did. And that's a key part. There are some clients where their portfolio is reflective of where the work was. They had to do preschool work. Or, you know, they were in animation for a very long time and it was, you know, a job's a job.

But then it's critical to be like, what's the story we are telling to sell you as a storyteller? And if the story is incoherent, it's very hard to sell why you need to be in the room. So the work has to speak for itself, and that's why that piece of material is so critical. 

Garrett: Yeah I have a client that I have known, knew for many years before we started working together, and she was support staff on like a constellation of shows.

And when she was on those shows, she was like, okay, well I'm the writer's assistant, I'm the showrunner's assistant, whatever. I'm gonna write something that I know will impress my bosses to put me on this show. And I read, probably, I think three scripts over the course of several years from her for a potential rep.

And I passed every single time because I was just like, it didn't, you know, I didn't spark to them. And then she sent me something new that I didn't know at the time, but she had just sort of gotten fed up and just like wrote what she wanted and I was like, oh my God, this. This is exciting to me. And of course it was because it's what she wanted to write.

It's a story she wanted to tell as opposed to trying to look out there and be like, oh, okay, well, you know, like The Pitt is doing really well. Let me write a medical thing. You know, I had a client that I no longer work with. A couple years ago who was like, I wanna write a procedural. And I just sort of didn't get why, because that's not the background that he had.

And he was dead set. He wanted to do it. And I was like, okay, great. Well you, I gotta do all this homework and watch procedurals and become a student of this form. And, you know, it was a struggle because like at the end of the day, I found out later he was like, well, I wanted to do it because procedurals aren't going anywhere and I figure I should have a script that like could be used for that sector of the business.

But it wasn't where his, like heart was telling a story in that way. And so it was a struggle to, you know, get there. Whereas I think like if you're writing something that is like you are excited about, that you're passionate about. That is going to come through and the work is gonna be better as a result, as opposed to just like, you know, paint by numbers.

Lorien: Right. Okay. I have a hypothetical for you. Say I'm a writer and I have written a pilot. And I love it and it's personal and I'm passionate about it. And it's not like anything else out there. I've also written the whole Bible for it and I've told you, here are all the 10 episodes in the season. Here are the act, like a whole thing, and I've put together a pitch deck for it.

because I really believe. That I am gonna make this show. Right. And I'm not saying that in a condescending way like this has happened before. So like I come and I say to you, Daniela Garrett, you're the two managers that I connect to, I wanna make this show. What would you how would you help me? What would you say to me?

Garrett: Are you saying that like in this hypothetical, we are your managers. 

Lorien: No, I'm looking for a manager. 

Garrett: You're looking for a manager. 

Lorien: And I've sent you this script and you're like, great, okay, l let's talk about it. And I say, oh, and here's the Bible and here's the deck and this is the show I wanna make.

And here are all the episodes and here's what I think is gonna happen. I'm gonna make this show. 

Garrett: For me. I think, you know, in a world wherein I'm engaging with a writer, like, you know, this is not really the answer to your question, but it's like, I think a part of it, it's like if I'm meeting a writer, I wanna rep them.

Like they can, ah, the meeting could change my mind. Like if they are a mess and like toxic or crazy or something, I could be like, whoa. But if I am going to sit across from somebody or on Zoom with somebody, it's because I read them. The work impressed me enough that I would like to try and work together.

Lorien: Okay, so you read my script? 

Garrett: Yeah. 

Lorien: You're like, great, let's meet, let's talk about it. And I'm like, well, this is a show I wanna make and I've written the Bible and the pitch and all the things. Let's do this. 

Garrett: And I mean, my attitude about that is just okay, great. You're ahead of the curve. Like, let's look at this, let's make sure it's ready to, you know, let's get it into perfect shape.

Because that more than ever is what it has to be, is perfect shape to get it in front of producers who could be the right partners for it. And if you've got a whole Bible and everything worked out, we're not gonna send that. You're gonna go and you're gonna do, you know, like, like either we're just saying like, you know what this, if the marketplace is better for pitches right now than.

We'll skip the script and we'll just have you go and do the pitch for the producers. If the marketplace is supporting like a spec, then great. We'll send the script. If they like the script, you'll go in and you'll tell them where the series goes and have that like 20 minute presentation. But I mean, like, and I will say like, I think I didn't, I tried to sign somebody last year and I didn't sign them.

And I know exactly why I didn't. It's because that day I was somewhat flustered and in our meeting I did not talk about my game plan for her pilot. And I had one, I was like, this is great. It could be sold. Like I can see exactly what I can do with this, but I just like forgot to talk about it. And just, we talked about like what working together would look like, and she went with a different management company and I don't have confirmation that's why, but that's a hundred percent why.

Lorien: I mean, that's a good reminder that you're not just desperate to find a rep. You're trying to find the right connection and that there is choice out there. Not to say that she made the right call. 

Garrett: No, I mean, like, I could've been that person. I just I slipped up and I did not do my full diligence.

Lorien: Well, sometimes we have terrible days. Okay, Garrett. Sometimes it happens. 

Daniela: So I'm endeared by you deeply and having heard other episodes, I'm like, this is what I came for. Honesty, vulnerability. 

Lorien: Thank you. I, this, I'm actually practically looking because I meet with writers and I work with writers and I do these retreats and I, you know, have people wanna, and my response when somebody comes to me with that is.

Set your expectations appropriately, which is, it's probably not gonna happen the way you think it is. When hearing your answer, Garrett gives me a little more hope and optimism that when you find the right person who believes in the project producer, manager, agent. Whatever will help you be able to leverage what you have, depending on what the market wants to position yourself in the best way, which is a far better, more supportive answer than the one I have been given, which is that's not gonna happen, right? because I'm a horrible person apparently.

Garrett: I mean, I said the thing I said, but I will tell you, I also say to all of my clients and prospective clients that statistically speaking. Everything that they set out to do will fail. And that sounds horrible. Burst of tears, honestly. Well, no but let me finish it.

Let me finish it. I promise. It's a good, it's a positive thing. And that usually is met with the reaction you just said. Yeah. But I'm, but I look at that as more like. You know, of a hundred percent of the ideas that exist in the world, a small percentage of those are gonna get set up with a producer and a hundred percent of the producer, I, producer, set up ideas are gonna get set up with a studio, a small percentage of those and so on and so on.

Until like basically getting a show on the air and television, it's statistically zero. And I and I say that to be like, the takeaway is you celebrate every single step forward because that end result is not guaranteed. And what feels like, you know, a. You know it, you've beaten the odds at every turn.

Getting it set up with producers, you beat the odds. Getting that, getting the studio to say yes to something, you've beaten the odds even more. And you know, so like I. But it's hard. It's like, you know, getting staffed on a show is like lightning striking. 

Lorien: And Yeah. And i, when I say it's not gonna happen, I mean, your first time you've written your first pilot, you wanna showrun a show that you've never been in TV before, like, oh yeah.

So like, adjust your expectations that if you do get a producer and you do sell it, one of the first things they might say is, well, we need you to rewrite the pilot, or we need a new take, or, this Bible isn't working for us because it's hour and a half hour and not an hour. And, you know, like that, that the vision you have.

So you have to be sort of flexible. So that's what I mean, not that your career is over. I would never say that to a writer. 

Garrett: Oh, well, no. And I don't mean it in a career is over way either, but I think like,

Lorien: No. I'm, yeah. Sorry. I'm just, God, this is a messy episode. 

Daniela: No. But I think there was something that as you were talking about it though, like there are often writers I've come across at Austin Film Festival. Sorry, that was like name drop. Austin Film Festival. They're the public. I love Austin Film Festival. I love it. It's a great crowd. But after a panel, I've had people come up and say, I have an idea for the TV show. And what I hear there is I have one idea.

And it's not. I am a career writer. I like stories pour out of me and I torture myself with the idea of wanting to write professionally. It's, hello you Hollywood representative, you are gonna unlock my one dream. And you, the way that Garrett and I know many other representatives are looking is like that piece of material that we're given.

It's part of a larger story, a part larger career, and we're gonna work very hard to champion that piece of material in the marketplace with the hopes that it will find a home. But underneath that, and you know, I think often my clients get tortured by the fact that it's like, okay, behind this we need to think about the next thing behind this.

We need to think about worst case scenario where if we took out all of your ideas and they don't land anywhere. We still have to do it again, and we're setting you up for the best case scenario where you have done a lot of work and now we get to talk about positioning when we're making the deal and we get to talk about how you get to split your time between all these projects that have found producers that have found success.

But I think when someone comes to me with the pitch deck and the series deck and the pilot and sometimes they've written the entire show. I begin to question whether they have that, the identity of a Capital W writer or if it's more specific to that project. 

Lorien: Right. I think that's part of the question too, is that I'm, I am always, okay.

Well write something else too, and then I get asked. Well, like, sometimes I just write something to be a sample or, you know, I love it. I want it to be a show, obviously, but like, I need new material out in the marketplace sometimes, right? Like to get a new meeting or somebody's already read me, so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go write a new show.

Which of course, I'm not gonna write something unless I wanna see it be made, but realistically I'm like, I just need a new sample. Which is, you know, a place so that I've talked to writers who are sort of baffled and confused by this or like, no. I'm just trying to get, I'm trying to write myself into a different meeting space.

I'm trying to write myself into meeting with this producer or you know, like I just need something else new. because everyone's already rubbed the old ones that are out there, you know? I mean, is that advice that you would, is that sound. Is that a sound strategy? 

Garrett: I think so. I mean, literally my husband who is a writer and a client actually as well 

Lorien: Oh my God, that doesn't sound weird at all.

Garrett: Well, I he, it was his idea actually. Well, no, I mean, listen it would not work for a lot of people. It works for us. 

Lorien: Meg and Joe, her husband Joe, are writing partners and I'm like, I can't even negotiate with my husband, like who's picking up my kid today at camp? Obviously it was me and I. Okay. That's why I was late for the podcast because we're so bad at that.

Garrett: But it's this conversation. That question is actually something that me and him and his agents were talking about earlier in the spring where it was just we have a sample. It's really good. It's exposed him, but it's like, if we're gonna talk to somebody, they're like, oh, I love him.

And they read him a thousand years ago. And so it's like, okay, well, like, what's next? How are you? You know, how are you going to show the skills that you have in a different light? And like that's, I think, is kind of the conversation that Daniela I feel pretty good saying you think this too?

Like that we have with every client when they're gonna write something new? because it's all about like, how do you, because if it's gonna do the same exact thing. And the other thing does it really good, unless you're gonna make sure, unless you make sure that it is better than the other thing that is already really solid.

Like there's no point in repeating yourself in that way. So you kind of always wanna show the different facets and a different version. Whether that means that like it's a different tone to fit a different space or just like. A cool new story that kind of hits the same buttons that your other material does.

And so, you know, and my attitude is I never want a client to write a sample, but that's just because I want, if they're gonna take the time and the blood, sweat, and tears that it takes to write something, it should be something that they can benefit on more than a sample. Worst case scenario. It's just a sample.

But. It should be able to have as much life as possible. And sometimes too, you know, like Mad Men I wanna say like the lore is that script sat in the desk drawer for 10 years, you know, it's like that script didn't meet its moment at the time that it was written. That's fine. You know, if you write something and it doesn't sell.

The way these executive jobs are, especially lately, they cycle through, like FX could pass on something four years ago, two years from now, they'll be like, that's the thing we want. And you know, dust that script off. And maybe it's made, 

Lorien: maybe I haven't heard back from that pitch yet because.

In a couple of years, they're gonna call me back and say, you know what? We found the notes that the exec took while you were pitching this, and it's so good. Right. I'll just do that. I didn't get a pass. So that just means it's not, it's –

Garrett: A very slow yes. 

Lorien: It's very slow. Yes. I'm down for that.

I have plenty of time. Okay. I love, okay, so let's say now you've. However you've connected to a writer you read them, you're like, yes, let's do this. They love you. You start to sh you know, you hear from them what they wanna do. You're considering what's going on in the industry, which I also wanna talk about what is going on in the industry right now from your perspective?

What are, what does the first, like couple of months look like when you're working with them? And I know this is a broad question because somebody could come with a feature that has attachments or somebody could have just one script or six scripts or, but what is that, what are those first phone calls about?

How are we gonna work together? Right? Like, what's appropriate, what's not? Like what can I do for you? What do you need to do? That kind of stuff. 

Garrett: I, for me it kind of, it depends on the writer obviously, but like. I think if I'm signing somebody, it looks there, there's likely to be something that I'm like, Hey, we can work with this right off the bat.

You know, it's like, oh, it's like they have a, if they have a, you know, bench of material that, oh no, we tried, or this was sold already, or whatever, and there's nothing active that I can take and be like, great, we can hit the ground running. Send this out to producers or do something, then it's okay, so I guess we'll write a new thing because that's the only way we'd be able to do something.

But if that piece of material exists that hasn't been exposed then it's just, you know, pulling the game plan together to be like, all right, great. because I think, and I know that, I think it's funny because when I felt the way that I'm about to say for a while, and I think that the business has kind of.

Changed in such a way that it has proven me right? Which is, I don't really believe in a general because I don't think that the most likely like path to success is gonna come out of like 20 minutes of your bio, 20 minutes of their bio and a, you know, hope we work together someday. Like if a client wants to meet at a production company, I'm like, great, let's get your piece of material in front of them in a competitive situation and they're going to be more likely to engage.

With the work, because it's not just me calling to be like, Hey, can you do some homework for me so that a client can meet you? It's letting the writer show the thing that they are good at and that's gonna be a more impactful meeting, even if they wind up passing on the project. because they got to see you do your thing.

And so I want to introduce people that way. I want the first time that they're meeting somebody at a production company to be like. To see them at their, the height of their powers, so to speak, as opposed to like a, oh yeah, I gotta go do this general, which is just a meeting that they're taking between things as 

Lorien: Don't you get a general though, when someone's already read you before the general.

Garrett: I mean yes, they're reading you before the general because like I've called and said, Hey, would you meet this writer? But like, there's nothing kind of in it for them, so to speak, whereas yeah. I want to create a situation wherein they have the opportunity to get this project, to make it theirs. Right. Right. To hear the pitch. And I think too off the page, building that relationship between a producer and a writer, even if it doesn't result in them working together on that particular project if they have ,et you in a pitch and the pitch was great, but it's a pass because they have something else or the buyer doesn't want it. Whatever they're gonna remember you more likely when they're staffing a show than if it was just you coming in for just a general. And so. I want to, I wanna build that, those relationships that way.

I think that's more effective. But two, what I was saying about like, I think the business has sort of like proved me, right – the conversation about, you know, generals, at least with some of the agents that I've talked to, is that producers aren't necessarily doing them, unless it's something where it's like that kind of competitive situation, it's like they're not necessarily gonna meet, I might be able to get a general, if I send out a script for attachment, Where they're like, I really like the writing, but it's not for us, but I'd love to meet. Then we'll do a general a hundred percent. But yeah. More and more I think the, “Hey, like, this is a great writer. You should just know them,” is less likely to result in a meeting these days. 

Lorien: Why I love this conversation so much is that the ideas I have about the industry and what's happening are old. Like how a new writer with a piece, a script – my whole thing has always been like, well, no one's gonna buy a script from a first time writer. But obviously that's not true. And I love a general, but obviously things are changing.

Like I am not as connected to the industry in the way that I would like to be. And that's why I love this because I feel like as somebody who has this podcast, and as a mentor and a teacher, I need to be more aware of what's going on practically as I'm talking to emerging writers specifically on this show too, like that the perspective I have isn't accurate, right?

Like how I see generals, how I see meetings with producers, how I see. People, you know, scripts and samples and stuff, so thank you. I feel like I'm learning a lot and it's very humbling and I very much appreciate it. 

Garrett: You know, I think thinking specifically about that dynamic between someone who's been doing the work for a long time and the emerging writer, it's like, I remember years ago I had a client be like, oh, well this showrunner that I'm friends with told me that, like, this is how I should do my pitch.

And I was like, yes, for her. 

She can do that. She can walk into a room and just shoot the shit and whatever. You have to walk in fully ready and prepped and knowing every moment of it because her career and her track record allows for that. And so she's not wrong, but she's not right for you.

Lorien: And I think I know what works for me, but I'm not as connected to what I think might work for, like, I don't tell people they should pitch like I do or the way I get a meeting with a producer or a gen, like generally my script people read a script that get a general and then it responds. It's like, oh, we wanna talk to specifically about this project. There's more to it after they've read me. 

Daniela: But yeah, I mean, I, the thing that I was gonna add is like, so much has shifted and you can point to certain things in the timeline, which is like during the pandemic. Generals were happening over Zoom, and we all reached that zoom fatigue. But then I think it was actually a reflection of what was bound to happen, which is, as producers have so many projects on their slate, the focus was how do I get this into production? And while I can take 30 generals in one week, it's much more productive for me to be talking to the 30 people that are gonna help move this forward or talk to the writer on this project 30 times to move this forward.

And so there's that shift. Then of course, there's this post strike shift where that pressure is on the producers more than ever. And then, you know, forget about the studio and the network generals. You know, it's very much, Garrett made an excellent point, which is like going in with a pointed purpose, people reading available material, and we talk at Good Fear a lot about like, what do you wanna be known for?

And if you're known for a script you wrote seven years ago. You are already behind on a whole like swath of people who are coming in with fresh material and that per and their own perspective. So it's critical to be generating material, but there has to be a path forward for it. There has to be a real conversation around strategy.

So to go back to the initial question, which was what does those initial months look like? We talk about those big goals and like what needs to happen. My expectations for the writer, which is I wanna hold you accountable to deadlines if we're going to be developing a pitch or doing a polish on the script before it goes out to people.

Treat this like your full-time job because someone who's a hobby writer where it's like, well, I wrote this over the past three years and now I have a manager, I'm gonna treat this very casually. I'm like, this is my job, so I need this by the end of the month, I am teaching you how to hit deadlines because those are the same deadlines you are going to have to hit when a producer expects this for a studio.

And you know, a lot of our relationship is to. Set you up for success when there's a lot more at stake. And then I really like hearing from the writer what their expectations are of me, not only to read the material on time to provide valuable notes, but back in the day it was very much like, I wanna meet everyone who is my fan.

And now it's managing that expectation of like, well, is that the best use of your time? For a client who should be writing going on generals to the few people who still take them, just the meet and greet virtual water bottle tour that time can be better spent. So in the short term, it's very much, all right, we have an active piece of material that we wanna take out into the marketplace. There are these other layered goals if you wanna staff, if you're a filmmaker who wants to get a short film made or get behind the camera, whatever it might look like. And then there are gonna be these loftier goals and to talk reasonably about well. You want it to be the dramedy writer, and does it make sense to maybe write a feature or how are we looking at building your portfolio?

What might be missing if it's not generating material? What might be missing about a lab that you know we can recommend you for or like preparing you for an opportunity. I think the one thing that often writers forget is a lot of life can get in the way. And how are you balancing this responsibility that there's someone in your corner who really wants you to succeed and that you know.

There is a honeymoon phase. When you first sign with a manager, you cannot squander that because it's really disheartening to sign a new writer and find that honeymoon period lasted a month because all of a sudden the writer. Sort of disappeared. They went on vacation and then they came back and acted as if well we're back at it again.

It's like all this momentum sort of lost. So I think it's just being very mindful if you're gonna enter into this relationship, that you're ready to be present in the relationship and be very like, articulate about what it is you want out of the relationship. Because I know for Garrett and I, it is very clear like, we want you to find success.

We want you to be a paid writer in this business and that requires a level of professionalism. 

Lorien: Yeah. 

Jeff: Thank you all so much for checking out part one of our two part conversation with Daniela Gonzalez and Garrett Greer. I know for me there are a ton of takeaways in here, and there are even more coming up in part two, which will be dropping next Thursday, so stay tuned.